want to rebuild trans dont know what route

[jakeshoe]

He builds all his trannys the same. The most common problem with these transmissions is burnt clutches and bands. I don't care if you use cryptonite clutches,they will burn up if they aren't applied with enough force all in one fell swoop. These wide spread burned clutches aren't something you see with 350 and 400 trannys. The only real difference in the 2004R is its variable volume pump. When you do a,b,and c to a 400 you always get d. This isn't always the case with the 2004R. When you do a,b,and c to a 2004R and don't get d,I say it's because the pump is unable to produce a sudden and instantanious increace in volume that is neede during a shift. 350 and 400 pumps always put out maximum volume.For the last 5 years I've read threads from very dejected people who've done a.b.and c,as have I,and have never gotten d. It's not because they did anything wrong. They/we did exactly what they were told. The things they were told weren't true. They are the people who now have 400 tranys in there cars. This saddens me to no end. I and manny others have never been helped by the so called experts on this site with any information that worked. There are never any specifics. It's usually " So and so built mine and it works great". This does absolutely nothing to help those of us trying to get our trannys to shift right. I dare anyone to tell those of us in this boat something we haven't tried,something different. Yes,as far as billet parts keeping you from burning clutches, they're not better. As far as billet parts being stronger and everything else being the same,they are always better.

Ttype6,
Don't take this the wrong way but you sound like you had issues with a 200-4R (possibly built yourself) and because the pros here didn't give you the free advice, you are pissed off about it.

I'm sure Dave builds a great trans, there are times when the billet isn't necessary, and I'm sure there are ways to build the trans to "work around" some of the parts.
For example, I rarely use the billet OD parts in my ~500 HP builds. I haven't broken any yet and I don't try to set the shifts to kill.

Next,
There is a HUGE amount of FREE advice and information on this forum by some of the best in the business. Whether you agree with everything these guys say or do, they all have a proven track record that speaks for itself.
I personally disagree with some of Bruce at PTS's statements about certain shift kits, etc, however I respect the guy for being in the business every day, having the units out there working, and giving the excellent free advice at the top of this forum. It's a good starting point full of info.
Chris at CKPerformance has been a mentor to me and in many ways a friend, however I don't always agree with all of his philosophies either.
Lonnie Diers, Don Wang, myself, Brian (Bison), and others have spent countless hours on here answering questions, talking shop, etc and it's benefits us as well as the home builder.

I see it all too often that people EXPECT the information we earn the hard way for free. I used to go to several different forums and spend hours answering auto trans related questions. I don't do it as much anymore because it causes more grief than anything and it gets really tiring trying to help people that either won't listen, want to argue, don't have the skills, want stuff for free, won't do any of their own research, etc. It just gets OLD.

There have been MANY cases on this forum where very specific information has been passed along. Bruce's Sticky, and topics here discussing dual feed, valve body calibration, governor mods, etc.
With a little research right here, you can learn to build the 200-4R with almost every trick there is.

As for the TH400 A+B+C does not always equal D, believe me. Nothing is ever that concrete in the automatic transmission world.

The variable displacement pump on a 200-4R is workable piece. I use a heavy pump priming spring on the slide, ala TransGo Hi-Rev pump ring kit. It includes the chromoly pump rings.

You can also block off the pump slide for full volume at all times, although I've found it unnecessary.
I feel that letting the slide move somewhat helps to even out the wear on the pump.

 

[Rell87]

Did you spend $2500.00 on a trans that didn't come with a billet forword drum?

No billet drum:redface:

 

[Ttype6]

No billet drum:redface:

Wow were you robbed. Did you break a part or burn clutches?

 

[chris718]

It is statements like that that really put a distance between me and this forum.Now for the record I fought many calibration gremlins and unglued alto clutches and bands but I am certain I have a hanlde on things and have given countless trade secrets to everyone here.I constantly introduce new products and ideas that benefit the trans.Half of the stuff wont be for sale anymore when it runs out,because of most people looking not to spend money for a quality updated product,but will be available in our transmissions.Its sad when I hear of a guy that has a 10 second car with a fresh build and no billet drum crying about how he got stock on the side of the road no movement until the tow truck picks him up.With the new planets ,output shaft ,input shaft,and 9 clutch direct drum no one will be able to offer a trans with more upgrades.Doesnt mean others wont work but just examine what parts we have made.And if you need the real deal information on the direct clutch,here it is:Excerps from what will be in next months issue of Gears magazine,:OL 2004R SHIFT KIT UPDATE
EXPLANATION AND INSTALLATION OF 3/2 CONTROL VALVE UPDATE

The original internal component design and hydraulic calibration of the GM 2004R transmission limit its reliable power handling capability to approximately 350 lbs. ft of torque. The introduction of steel billet internal components and improved hydraulic calibration has pushed the limit beyond 650 lbs. ft of torque. As a result, premature 3rd clutch failure has become an area of immediate concern for the transmission aftermarket. Initial signs of trouble usually show up in the form of “flaring” during 2/3 upshifts under heavy acceleration immediately followed by 3rd clutch failure. Our previously released dual feed direct clutch modifications greatly improve upshift quality and clutch durability but are not the absolute fix .Along with our steel billet shaft forward drum and valve body recalibration kit dual feeding should be considered mandatory when power output is above 400 lbs. ft of torque. However additional corrections are made when installing our new “3rd Gear Correction Kit” with new separator plate and 3/2 control valve update. The “3rd Gear Correction Kit” can be used in place of, and or in conjunction with most other valve body kits from other manufacturers. Also, it can be used to upgrade the early “CK Performance Valve Body Recalibration Kit” that utilized 7 checkballs in the transmission case. These kits were sold up to the end of September 2007.Beginning in October 2007, a new separator plate was released for the “CK Performance Valve Body Recalibration Kit”. Further enhancements have been made to this plate for use with “3rd Gear Correction Kit”. Beginning January 12th 2009, this new separator plate and the 3/2 control valve update will be it will be included in the “CK Performance Valve Body Recalibration Kit. My research has uncovered what I believe to be the real causes of “flaring” and premature 3rd clutch failure. In simple terms, the simultaneous flow of oil to direct clutch drum and release side of the servo assembly is far from optimum for extreme duty applications and plays a major role in shift quality and 3rd clutch durability. In order for one to accept the complexity of the circuit and the purpose of the corrections a more in depth approach is essential. This can only be accomplished by us taking the time to trace each step in the fluid path. Clear off your workbench and grab a valve body, separator plate, and transmission case. “RND4D3” oil from the manual valve flows thru Separator Plate Hole #8 and into Valve Body Passage #6 where it stops, waiting at the “closed”2/3 shift valve until governor pressure opens it. When the valve opens, this is the start of a 2/3 upshift.This oil passes thru the “open”2/3 shift valve and into the adjoining Valve Body Passage #8, where it is now called “3rd clutch oil”. There are multiple passages and cavities this oil must fill before a 2/3 upshift is completed .The oil must overcome friction as well as displace trapped air that remains in the circuit when the 3rd clutch is not applied. A greater volume of oil as well as increased pressure is desirable. It is for this reason that Separator Plate Hole #8 has been enlarged. With the stock separator plate,”3rd clutch oil” now must flow thru Separator Plate Holes #14 (the small and large round holes) and into Transmission Case Passage #5. In this passage is Case Checkball #4. It is at this location that during 3/2 backshifts or kickdowns, when 3rd clutch oil is exhausting back thru the 3rd clutch circuit, that it seats Case Checkball #4 against the large round Separator Plate Hole #14. By doing this it forces the exhausting 3rd clutch oil thru the small round Separator Plate Hole #14.One of the many reasons for orificed exhaust is to eliminate a” back to 1st “condition on a 3/2 kickdown.Too small of an intermediate servo piston for a given application results in a slow intermediate band re-apply and reduced clamping force. Anyone building this transmission for an extreme duty application who does not understand the importance of a performance intermediate servo assembly, will be fighting burnt up intermediate bands before they overload the 3rd gear clutch. There is adequate orificed 3rd clutch exhaust underneath the 2/3 shift valve in the valve body casting and elsewhere without the presence of the large round Separator Plate Hole #14 and Case Checkball #4. When visually studying the circuitry it becomes apparent that the ball does not do anything in a hi performance application other than restrict the flow of 3rd clutch oil from passing thru the large square Separator Plate Hole #14 in the and into Valve Body Passage #8. For this reason we have deleted Case Checkball #4, as well as the large round Separator Plate Hole #14.We resized(opened up) the smaller round Separator Plate Hole #14 to match the flow capabilities 3rd clutch oil had up to this point. The changes here instantly improved 2/3 upshift firmness at all throttle angles. At this point in time 3rd clutch oil, now in Valve Body Passage #8, flows thru the next large round Separator Plate Hole #14, into Transmission Case Passage #6 and out into the center support and direct clutch drum. At the same time 3rd clutch oil is also flowing to the release side of the servo assembly. Oil is sent here is to release the 2nd gear band while simultaneously applying 3rd clutch. This band release and clutch apply must be properly calibrated/synchronized to eliminate bind-up and flaring during the 2/3 upshift. From Valve Body Passage #8, 3rd clutch oil must flow into Valve Body Passage #12, or “3rd accumulator” where it can make its way to the servo. This is the crucial point where proper orificing of 3rd clutch oil into the 3rd accumulator circuit must be accomplished. In stock form, there are 2 routes the 3rd clutch oil can take from Valve Body Passage #8 to Valve Body Passage #12 during a 2/3 upshift. This depends on the position of the 3/2 control valve. The 3/2 control valve assembly consists of items 310,316 and 317 shown in ILLUSTRATION 5.The 3/2 control valve is located in Valve Body Passage #8 and connects with Valve Body Passage #12. The 3/2 control valve is held open by a spring and is gradually completely closed as driveshaft speed increases by governor oil acting on its large land located in Valve Body Passage #11. When the valve is open or partially open it allows 3rd clutch oil to pass directly thru a huge orifice into Valve Body Passage #12.When the valve is closed it forces 3rd clutch oil to flow thru 2 separator plate orifices into Valve Body Passage #12. In essence, it provides variable orificing of 3rd clutch oil into the 3rd accumulator circuit based on driveshaft rpm. According to GM technical manuals, this was not its intended purpose. Its purpose is similar to Case Checkball #4, previously discussed. This is a negative side effect of the design. This causes light throttle flaring that overheats the friction and steel plates in high torque applications. It is for this reason we install a blocker spring to hold the 3/2 control valve closed regardless of driveshaft rpm. SEE PHOTOGRAPH # 1 FOR AN EXPLANATION OF HOW TO INSTALL THE SUPPLIED 3/2 CONTR VALVE BLOCKER SPRING UPDATE. Now let’s look at it again. 3rd clutch oil flowing in Valve Body Passage #8 will either pass thru an open, or partially open 3/2 control valve into Valve Body Passage #12 while simultaneously flowing thru 2 separator plate orifices, past a checkball, and thru another separator plate orifice into Valve Body Passage#12 or it will stop at a closed 3/2 control valve, while simultaneously flowing thru 2 separator plate orifices, past a checkball, and thru another separator plate orifice into Valve body Passage #12. You must understand that oil 3rd clutch oil is sent to the 3/2 control valve and separator plate orifices at the same time. After the oil passes thru Separator Plate Holes #5 (the small and large round holes) it must flow past the Case Checkball #2, and out thru Separator Plate Hole #5(the square hole) into Valve Body Passage #12. When visually studying the circuitry it becomes apparent that the ball does not do anything in a hi performance application other than restrict the flow of 3rd accumulator oil from passing thru the large square Separator Plate Hole #5 and into Valve Body Passage #12. For this reason we have deleted Case Checkball #2, as well as the large round Separator Plate Hole #5.We resized(opened up) the smaller round Separator Plate Hole #5 to balance 3rd accumulator oil flow rates in proportion to 3rd clutch apply. Please note that if the separator plate is OEM Monte Carlo SS HO, it will only use the large round hole at location #5. The orificing of 3rd clutch oil into the 3rd accumulator circuit works best when it flows thru a single .115” to .120” diameter orifice in the separator plate. If we calculate the stock orificing of 3rd clutch oil into the 3rd accumulator circuit with either an opened, partially opened or closed 3/2 control valve, as well as the diameters of either 1 or 2 round holes at location #5 in the plate it is always much greater than what should be considered optimum for this very sensitive circuit.

 

[413turbo]

^^^

 

[Rell87]

Clutches

 

[Ttype6]

There have been MANY cases on this forum where very specific information has been passed along. Bruce's Sticky, and topics here discussing dual feed, valve body calibration, governor mods, etc.
With a little research right here, you can learn to build the 200-4R with almost every trick there is.



The variable displacement pump on a 200-4R is workable piece. I use a heavy pump priming spring on the slide, ala TransGo Hi-Rev pump ring kit. It includes the chromoly pump rings.

You can also block off the pump slide for full volume at all times.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because some one builds their own trans it has to be the reason it burns clutches. Bruces STICKY is only a discription of how to disassemble,inspect, and re-assemble a 2004R. I can do that blindfolded. There is nothing in there that helps me in any way. Against my better judgement I purchased Chris' book and of coarse,nothing to help.You say the pump is workable.Great! How? I can tell you this,it's not the spring. Do you really think I haven't used different priming springs? Do you really think I haven't installed hardend rings 20 Years ago? The fact that you would offer this advice that does nothing to change my shift quallity shows that you think I,m as ignorant as anyone could be about the 2004R. The first time I drove a GN was in 1984. Other than the power it made while being quiet at the same time ,I was extremely impressed at how each shift was so imediate and how the car accellerated more with each shift. This trans did this in its stock configuration. Original priming spring,rings,valve body,seperator plate,the stock servo with a soft spring that had to travel a half mile to push on the band,and a direct clutch piston that had to travel a half mile to apply the clutches. How do you explain this? Think about this. All of us do things to lessen the volume needed to apply a clutch or band. When you dual feed you're asking the pump to put out a larger volume and it can and does produce a shift that doesn,t flair or burn the clutches if you coordinate the clutch apply and the band kick off. How do you explain this? I've thought many times about blocking the slide and haven't done it yet .This is the first time I've heard anyone say they've done it. You have done it,right? This is something I call specific. Yesterday,Because of a conversation I had with Dave,I took my servo out and took all the washers out that I use to set it as tight as possible. I also took the apply spring out and installed the weekest one I have. I never have problems with 1-2 but after doing this it had a better feel. How do you explain that? I bet you don't set yours up this way. Talk to me like I'm one of your peers.I am.

 

[chris718]

TTYPE,My shift kit and plate is the fix.There are over 1500 in service.You are of poor character to attempt to belittle us that have produced tech and product.Against YOUR better judgement you have opened up your mouth in public and Im hear to answer you.My book and parts has helped many build transmissions from start to finish with no previous trans experience.Did you ever stop and think maybe you are doing something wrong or missing something?It is apparent you are frustrated with something you cannot fix.The answers are here on this forum but instead of using it to fix your problem you try to sever the vines the information flows from.Very poor judgement on your part.I hope this is not how you interract with people in all other daily situations.Im happy with what I have done,maybe you are not.Its never too late to regroup and try again.

 

[Ttype6]

Clutches

Of coarse. I wish I knew of something that could help. I feel very strongly that its one small thing. I have a very long list of things that don't work.

 

[Ttype6]

My book and parts has helped many build transmissions from start to finish with no previous trans experience.Did you ever stop and think maybe you are doing something wrong or missing something?

Your book does a very good job of explaining the disassembly,inspection,modification,and re-assembly of the 2004R transmission for people with no previous trans experience. I'm not that person.I don't think I've done anything wrong or am missing something because I've done everything you describe in your book.Your theory is that a 2004R trans won't shift correctly unless it has your 3rd gear correction kit in it. If someone can get one to shift correctly without your kit,your theory is wrong. Dave Husek accomplishes this with a stock valve body and stock seperator plate.This ugly fact destroys your beautiful theory. That is not to say that your kit would hurt anything. This fact just shows it isn't needed.

 

[DIAZ 87]

thats all im doing


im not going to blindly spend pretty much any amount of money on something before i look things up about it

im sure every one of you spent time on that too before you even pulled out your credit cards.

im not giving any excuse to not spend the amount of money that is needed i just wanted to know if its going to be spent in the best way possible, if the better one is more and it is proven better with all positive feedback from experienced users than i will put the extra cash and go for it but if the closer to stock trans will still be just as strong and not overkill than i will do that but thats just an example and now i know its pretty much not haha

cmon its nothing out of the ordinary or nothing to make a huge deal out of just another person looking for the best bang for the buck and we always want to hear good things about the product we are interested in buying.

all i wanted to know was

1. what transmission will be most cost effective to me and not overkill and pay extra for things i will not need or have the power to ever make any use out of?

THATS IT!

thanks didnt mean to complicate things or get any one into any arguements over this question but as for any part i liek to hear your opinions on what works and what doesnt because more than one time i changed my choice right away after really asking around on something.

Personally i think your crazy to not take SUPER DAVE on his SUPER OFFER.Let me tell you one thing i spend $1995.00 for a complete rebuild,sh@t if i could of only have had that deal for $500.All the guys here in the chicagoland area use's Jimmy's transmission:biggrin:he's one of the great vendors of the buick community that isn't known here on this forum that much on less your in the midwest section


FYI the next time some one offers you somethink for the 1/3 of the price or even free from any of this great vendors the next think that should come out of your mouth is when,where and how

Hey Dave the next time you need a test dummy just give me a call,the hell with that the next time any vendor here needs to test out their product just give me a call.Im willing to help out in any way as long as it's the 3rd of the price or even free:biggrin:

 

[QuickWrench]

Dave,
If you were extending that offer to everyone...I'd take three. What a deal.

Chris,
I've been through your book, and it's VERY good for the intended audience.

 

[DIAZ 87]

i dont want to be the one to like be the guinea pig with testing his transmissions

you should be a shame of your self for that comment

 

[Ttype6]

Chris,
I've been through your book, and it's VERY good for the intended audience.

Well said.

 

[jakeshoe]

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because some one builds their own trans it has to be the reason it burns clutches. Bruces STICKY is only a discription of how to disassemble,inspect, and re-assemble a 2004R. I can do that blindfolded. There is nothing in there that helps me in any way. Against my better judgement I purchased Chris' book and of coarse,nothing to help.You say the pump is workable.Great! How? I can tell you this,it's not the spring. Do you really think I haven't used different priming springs? Do you really think I haven't installed hardend rings 20 Years ago? The fact that you would offer this advice that does nothing to change my shift quallity shows that you think I,m as ignorant as anyone could be about the 2004R. The first time I drove a GN was in 1984. Other than the power it made while being quiet at the same time ,I was extremely impressed at how each shift was so imediate and how the car accellerated more with each shift. This trans did this in its stock configuration. Original priming spring,rings,valve body,seperator plate,the stock servo with a soft spring that had to travel a half mile to push on the band,and a direct clutch piston that had to travel a half mile to apply the clutches. How do you explain this? Think about this. All of us do things to lessen the volume needed to apply a clutch or band. When you dual feed you're asking the pump to put out a larger volume and it can and does produce a shift that doesn,t flair or burn the clutches if you coordinate the clutch apply and the band kick off. How do you explain this? I've thought many times about blocking the slide and haven't done it yet .This is the first time I've heard anyone say they've done it. You have done it,right? This is something I call specific. Yesterday,Because of a conversation I had with Dave,I took my servo out and took all the washers out that I use to set it as tight as possible. I also took the apply spring out and installed the weekest one I have. I never have problems with 1-2 but after doing this it had a better feel. How do you explain that? I bet you don't set yours up this way. Talk to me like I'm one of your peers.I am.

I'm not assuming because someone built their own trans that THEY caused a burnt friction failure on a 200-4R. It's a generally known fact that the 200 doesn't have the friction area of say a TH400 and even properly assembled, you could burn clutches.

I honestly believe the deep pan is paramount here. I think I "could" get away with upping the PR spring, leaving a near stock seperator plate on it and a stock GN servo and stock hard parts and 95% of the time the trans would live into the 11's. It's just that 5% of the time when the forward drum snaps off that bothers me.

Myself and Chris have spoken of not setting the direct clearances as tight as Bruce specs in his sticky on here in the past. Specific information that IS out there. I don't think direct clearance is as critical as many worry about. I do prefer to keep the servo somewhat tight, but I'm not looking at it from a 1-2 standpoint but a 2-3 standpoint.

The 1-2 shift is pretty simple. I leave cushion spring in place, leave accumulator effective, and use a very mild accumulator setup, aka TransGo stuff.
The 1-2 is fine, crisp but not harsh, that's all I'm after.

IMO,
You are selling Bruce's article short, and if you look back you'll see I'm definitely not a follower of Bruce's, but his article is a good baseline, not just an assembly and inspection article.
I can tell you, much effort goes into such a well written article.

You make it sound like you have some great trick about working with a variable displacement pump, but also that you still have friction issues. I assemble a pump using a 10 vane rotor, Transgo rings, new vanes, guide, rotor, bushing, seal, stator, etc. .500 boost valve, and usually the TransGo PR spring.

The dual feed mod does require more volume. I compensate for this additional volume on TH350s and TH400s elsewhere, on the 200-4R this is where a fairly tight servo clearance can help but where Chris's 3rd gear mod really comes in.
I'm not here to say it's the only way, but I know it works and works well.

This forum used to be one of the best auto trans tech places on the net, not just for the 200-4R but other GM trans. It was that way because some of the sharp guys talked shop here. I learned a bunch from all of these guys.
The sharing of knowledge, the technical discussions, and the arguments all added up to at least make you think..

If you have a theory about it, throw it out there. I think that may be why this topic has gone the direction it has gone. I often see Dave simply get on to say PM sent when a question is asked. I have no problem with that as it's none of my business and understand he may want to keep some info to himself. However some people see it as an underhanded way to conduct business when they are actually answering questions in the open.

I would love to hear some of his and your theories or opinions and what works for ya'll.

 

[buickgsxjuiced]

man i read these forum posts and it just adds to my stress, all the bickering between venders...seems as though this 2004r could be considered the "most" problem tranny there is as far as hotroders and streetroders go....You can chalk me to the list.

 

[turbo nasty]

Jerry Jerry Jerry jerry

 

[Ttype6]

I honestly believe the deep pan is paramount here. I think I "could" get away with upping the PR spring, leaving a near stock seperator plate on it and a stock GN servo and stock hard parts and 95% of the time the trans would live into the 11's. It's just that 5% of the time when the forward drum snaps off that bothers me.

Myself and Chris have spoken of not setting the direct clearances as tight as Bruce specs in his sticky on here in the past. Specific information that IS out there. I don't think direct clearance is as critical as many worry about. I do prefer to keep the servo somewhat tight, but I'm not looking at it from a 1-2 standpoint but a 2-3 standpoint.


You make it sound like you have some great trick about working with a variable displacement pump, but also that you still have friction issues. I assemble a pump using a 10 vane rotor, Transgo rings, new vanes, guide, rotor, bushing, seal, stator, etc. .500 boost valve, and usually the TransGo PR spring.


I'm not here to say it's the only way, but I know it works and works well.

I learned a bunch from all of these guys.
The sharing of knowledge, the technical discussions, and the arguments all added up to at least make you think..

I often see Dave simply get on to say PM sent when a question is asked.

I would love to hear some of his and your theories or opinions and what works for ya'll.

I can't think of any good reason to not use a deep pan. I use Bruce's.

I can't think of any good reason to not use a billet forward drum. I have Chris' drum.

Bruce's Sticky is very good information.When you speak about his description of how tight he sets up his directs and say it is an example of specific I say yes it is but it's one that didn't help me. The reason it didn't help me is because it isn't specific enough. When he says set them with .045 clearance it gives you the picture that you can put .045 feeler guage inbetween the clutch and backing plate and you're good. This isn't the case. He sets them up much tighter than that. Two years ago when I decided I wanted a fresh ,round,straight surface for my new wide band to apply to I had Bruce send me a dirict drum loaded with his clutches. Man was I suprised by how tight the clutches were. I loaded it in my trans,installed the trans,and for the first time in 18 years had a perfect 2-3 shift. Wow! I always new it could be this way. Many people in my life said over the years that I was too picky. I would tell them that there was only two ways for a tranmission to shift. Right and Wrong. Then I would ask them to pick one.
By the end of the summer I lost my good 2-3 shift .I called bruce and told him to send me a new pump (mine was blowing fluid out the vent) and asked him if he thought it would bring back my good 2-3. He said he didn't think so. I put the new pump in and And my perfect shift was back.

Two monthes later I pulled the shifter into low to activate the trans break and was greeted with a nice loud wine. I called Bruce and told him to send me another pump which got rid of the wine but didn't bring back my good shift. That is where I am now. I haven't taken it apart to inspect yet.

I have no trick for the pump,but my current theory is it's the pump,it's the pump.

I've done all the things you describe doing to your pumps and found no difference.

I think it's very interesting how some things work some and not for others and it does make me think. I think this is a big clue.

Dave uses the PM only to avoid confusion and argument.

I described in an earlier post what I di to my servo two days ago. I drove the car yesterday to see if it still felt better and it did in every way. I also tend to think that the tight servo plays the most important role during the 2-3 shift.

Thanks for your reply. I'm going to try something with Dave's help soon. Any your ideas are welcome.

 

[HP Man]

I don't understand the; "Comment; Dave sends a PM" he is giving some free advice that's all. He doesn't use a deep oil pan, billet servo, or valve body mods or shift kits, results steady line pressure, no 2-3 flair shifts. His approach may be different than other tranny builders but they plane work! Dave has built both Reds and Jane's Trannies in the past and even has driven both cars. (before Jane's S1 3.8 Engine) These cars pull the front wheels with a mild 5# launch boost of course they run RA's Tune. Trannies are like engines, you can throw a lots of money at them with questionable results? The original posting was a simple question on how much building is needed to make a good S/S Car. Several gave their opinions so the choice is up to the Individual. I'd run Dave's Tranny, torque converter, billet drum if doing a WOT L/U, of course saving lots of money in the process. My Approach is; "Whatever Turns Your Crank" but spend you money wisely. I've dealt with several Tranny Builders since 1988 (Chuck of Valdosta, GA being the 1st) and have gone the Gambit, tried a lot of parts that didn't work. I'd only trust the proven builders for both engines and trannies. I don't ever try and build my own transmission or my engines but leave that up to the Experts. Gene

 

[JDSfastGN]

I'm not knocking anybody but I keep reading and just as some think this is the new "turbobuick.com" where useless parts are recommended I don't think its a good thing to let people think that they can get away without at least a billet drum in a car that is running low 12s or better. They aren't that expensive, and yes your stocker may last but they are not all created equal. I have broken a stocker and had quite a few customers that have brought trannys to me with broken stockers as well as a few broken hardened drums. Its not always power that kills them. I don't care what mods you do or don't do, a stock drum or input shaft is not gonna withstand much when it comes to traction issues and wheel hop on the street that cause the parts to be loaded and unloaded. Yes Ive seen a stock drummed car go 10s without breakage, but Ive also seen hotair cars that are running no better than 15.50s snap a drum. Why chance it?