Wastegate opinions?

[DukeGN]

I'm still trying to figure out whether the tial or turbosmart is the better EWG. I noticed that Bent6 ended up with a Tial 44 mm from reading his post about the new PTE 6765 DBB billet wheel turbo. I also occasionally frequent a subaru board and they generally prefer the Tial.

I have to admit that I'm leaning to the Tial. Maybe because more people have used them and had success where the turbosmart is a little less proven. Also, the Tial is not quite as expensive as the turbosmart.

I'm particularly interested in the EWG issue because the 3.5 inch DP that Big Wood is making interests me, but I need an external and I'm hesitant about the turbosmart.

Duke

 

[JayC]

The Turbosmart is the ticket.

We have a single turbo Mustang with a 106 on that makes ~1400 at the rear wheels that had two gates on it, we removed both of them and put a single TurboSmart 60 on it. It will control the boost pressure down to whatever spring you have in it.

I sell both... we can make you a downpipe for either one.. truthfully I make more money on the Tial gates but honestly, the TurboSmart stuff is better. We could have put anything on our own race car and we used the TurboSmarts.

 

[Bent6]

You can't go wrong with either one. I prefer the TiALs myself. I considered trying a Turbosmart but since I already had experience with the TiALs I just stuck with them. I wouldn't go as far as to say one is better than the other. They are both high quality gates.

I went with a V44 TiAL on my street car and it now has rock solid boost control. I also recently reconfigured my boost control setup on my 1400hp race car running a single 91.5mm turbo. It also had two gates that I replaced with a single V60mm TiAL.

FWIW

 

[Darkcyde]

you NEVER rate a wastegate in terms of HP

ding ding!

**SIDE NOTE** I am sorry people like synapse the company here, (turbosmart I know nothing about product wise or experience wise). But I will never buy any product which comes from people (synapse) who use, setup on purpose and create improperly set up tests with your tial products vs their product in order to produce a name for themselves and produce hype online. I along with all who saw those videos online when this company first came out WILL NEVER FORGET! Any company that tries to make a name for themselves like this will never be supported by me, it was completely dishonest and just plain stupid as a PR move.

 

[DukeGN]

Thanks Jay and Will -- you've been really helpful.

Jay -- Should I just give you guys a call about the downpipe? I'm thinking stainless steel with the turbosmart, but I need to get my headers first. I'm probably going the TA route.

I also have a question on the spring for the wastegage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my basic understanding:

1. CO2 allows you to run a lighter spring and control the boost more effectively through the AMS500 (or another electronic controller).

2. If no CO2 (my route) and using manifold pressure, then run a bigger spring.

Using Will's street setup as the example, I can't figure out why #2 makes sense other than the AMS doesn't have enough gusto to control the boost without C02 so you rely on the spring more. How does the bigger spring relate to your launch and desired max boost?

 

[Rell87]

I have a Tial V60 too.

 

[Bent6]

I also have a question on the spring for the wastegage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my basic understanding:

1. CO2 allows you to run a lighter spring and control the boost more effectively through the AMS500 (or another electronic controller).

2. If no CO2 (my route) and using manifold pressure, then run a bigger spring.

Using Will's street setup as the example, I can't figure out why #2 makes sense other than the AMS doesn't have enough gusto to control the boost without C02 so you rely on the spring more. How does the bigger spring relate to your launch and desired max boost?

Your basic understanding is correct. Option #2 is usually only used in street scenarios where it's not feasible to run CO2. The problem with using manifold pressure is that it is not as constant as the CO2 - it changes with the temperature, barometer, boost pressure, etc. A good rule of thumb is to figure the max boost you want and divide it by 2 to get the spring pressure you need in the gate. The best bet is to run the largest spring for the minimum amount of boost you would need WITHOUT help from the AMS. In better words, if you knew that the minimum boost for your setup would be 15#s, I would say go with a 12-14# spring and let the AMS do the rest.

If you are wanting to launch off a targeted boost pressure, then you would need a spring that is right at or just below your target. Depending on how low you want it will determine the need for CO2. Using my street car for example, if I only want to launch at 5-7#s I would need to run a 5# spring in the gate to achieve this low of a boost but would have to have the CO2 to get the boost higher. Your range is limited when using manifold pressure - in the above example, if I had a 5# spring in the gate that would only allow 5#s of MANIFOLD boost/pressure to go the the AMS which in turn could only apply 5#s to the top of the gate so the max I would see would theoretically be around 10#s of boost. Using CO2/Nitrogen/etc gives a much higher range of control using any boost controller due to the constant higher pressure availability.

 

[charlief1]

Will, I'm planning to do an external on mine and from what I've gleened is I can use a lighter spring with a controller and still get more boost out of it than what it's rated at. Is that correct?

 

[Bent6]

Yes but there are limitations depending on whether the controller is using manifold pressure or CO2 - see post #27 above.

 

[charlief1]

Manifold presure. It's for the street. I figured on using an 8lb spring and adjusting for more as I tune it.