The old 5.0 is still hard to beat as well .... they can run 9's and not even work up a sweat .. when stock cars are running 10's on street tires nowdays .. it doesn't take long to figure out the old turbo buicks just don't match up anymore.. they are fun but you have to keep them in an area that they are happy.. which isn't where the new cars play
Well, its IMO true the head is the limiter.
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The old 5.0 is still hard to beat as well .... they can run 9's and not even work up a sweat .. when stock cars are running 10's on street tires nowdays .. it doesn't take long to figure out the old turbo buicks just don't match up anymore.. they are fun but you have to keep them in an area that they are happy.. which isn't where the new cars play
With some smart part selection ($$$$$), know how, and the correct people working on a turbo regal you can run with the best of the day or better. There is little room to do things "cheaper". If budget is a concern then you have no business in high performance cars period. Id run anything that came out of anywhere for new cars with either of my cars and I actually drive mine on long trips. Sure they aren't anywhere as plush and nice as a new car and handle like balls comparatively but in straight line performance they will lay waste to just about anything you come across on the road even if it's heavily modified. Neither of them is a high dollar build (more of a perception of the person) but neither of them are cheap builds by any stretch. You will notice a few common components that most quicker cars have. They are a typically speed density wide band fuel management with timing tables and a bunch of other data collecting loggers, proper torque converter, proper selection of engine parts, and proper assembly of the engine. The faster cars have quality transmission builds also. The person (wether owner or other) who dials in these parts has the biggest influence on how much they will get out of it. You will notice the ones that go consistently fast with little down time are capable of analyzing all these systems and making quick decisions on what to do next wether it's analyzing a failure, changing the engine tune, or adjusting the suspension. There is no limit to how far you can take something. There's always room for improvement. Sometimes you make a change and go backward. Posting and reading the Internet will give some insight but getting hands on and reading many physics books and applying what you learned will get you way more because you won't be at the mercy of anyone at any particular time.
BPE2013@hotmail.com
If you really want to believe you can be competitive in the street with your turbo regal ... I wont disturb your fantasy ...
But your not being honest with yourself ... there are stock cars with just ECU flashes picking up 35 mph on the big end .. you try one of those out from a 55 mph role and the turbo BRICK will get its ass handed to it ... it takes nothing to get a new LSx with any boost in the 9's.. Same with the Ford charged cammers and even the "OLD" 5.0
Just because you have a low 9 second track turbo regal.. doesn't mean your going to be competitive with a new "STOCKER" in the street ...
They are trapping right at 130 on stock tires .. with 10 second slips all day with a warranty..
Power production is only a small part of the equation .. but its old school technology that just has been eclipsed . It was fun while it lasted but newer stuff is just far superior in every aspect... power potential.. reliability... parts availability... comfort.. features.. mileage... and it goes on and on.
700-800 hp is nothing for the new gen motors.. with a 109 its TICK TICK TICK BOOM !
TT/Ameasap
The White Blur
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Who is reading physics books? That is more quantitative than qualitative. Applying the sciences to these Buicks helps, but start applying it to the newer generation of cars and give them 20 years to figure it out.
Remember when just 10-15 yrs ago when 11's were popular with our cars? Things have changed since, but our Buick's dont have a chance in the coming years.
Remember when just 10-15 yrs ago when 11's were popular with our cars? Things have changed since, but our Buick's dont have a chance in the coming years.
Yeah new cars with a boat load of modification. 35 miles per hour with an Ecu flash. See a lot of that too.
BPE2013@hotmail.com
Yeah new cars with a boat load of modification. 35 miles per hour with an Ecu flash. See a lot of that too.
BPE2013@hotmail.com
Street Lethal
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I gotta disagree with this. The only thing stopping the old 3.8 from being a contender with today's technology are the heads and cam. If ARAO put out a four valve head (w/pushrods, and they can) for the LC2 if would put the engine on an entirely different level. Then there is the camshaft. Yes, the LC2 has just one camshaft, however technology marches on, and if MAHLE made a "cam in cam" adjustable camshaft for the LC2 engine (which they can), it would only make it even better. Add a variable vane turbo, and it's, well, good night Irene...
http://www.araoengineering.com/chevysmb.htm
http://www.mahle.com/mahle/en/news-...alve-train-increases-torque-significantly.jsp
Brian .. seriously ... ECU flash and thats about all .. NOT a boat load of mods ... I just watched a pullied Tuned Caddy - V run in the 10's @ 129 ... he drove it 90 miles each way.. I wont even get into the turbo LSX or the Turbo Fords... they run 9's @ stupid mph with little boost .. now with everyone catching on with E85 everyone can push more from less...
New stuff is WAY WAY more advanced and capable of significantly more power. But again its not just the power .. the new cars can get it to the ground and they can do it OVER and OVER in any situation.
The buicks are alot of fun and I wont get rid of my TTA's .. but I have just accepted it for what it is .. its a antique that is no longer at the top of the food chain.. but I am okey with that.
But the reality of the matter .. THEY DONT !! its a old school pushrod 231 cubic inch Jeep motor ... you cant WHAT IF IT to death..
if it was a DOHC all aluminum 6 bolt main 5.0L V6 it wouldnt be a LC2 anymore ... but the buicks dont have that card to play... time has passed them by...
Sorry your not goign to be competitive on the street EVEN if you had that motor .. there is alot more to the new cars going fast beyond the motor !
I love the TTA's always have always will.. but reality does set in.. its a fun car that is pretty quick and does okey on the street even by todays standards.. but its certainly not going to give any of the newer performance cars much of a challenge.
If you look around you will see that the power density of these engines is lagging big time. 1000hp 8 cylinder. Not a big deal. 1000hp on 93 octane is though but those aren't common. Turbo LS and turbo Fords only when the baseline package is altered to work with them. Not too many around. I'll take a solid axle rear drive car any day. Precisely why you see so most of the fast ones in fox bodies and a lot of g bodies too. The cars are lighter and getting the suspension to work and deal with the power is much easier.
BPE2013@hotmail.com
TTA976
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The newer 2013-2014 Camaro, Mustang and Challenger in the $40,000 range ain't beating my modded TTA.lol Now the $60/80,000+ models will, but aren't they suppose to for that crazy price.
Joe
Dont bring price into it at all .. because with just a year or 2 the 60K models are already in the 40K zone.. .not sure where you guys are located in the country.. but in the midwest apparently being must have some Jingle .. as they are everywhere..
and I dont know how you can say a 40K Model wont beat your Modded TTA ... a simple bolt on Mustang with a small tuneup will run in the 10's all day long in the street
a 40K caddy ( 2 year old) will run in the 10's with almost nothing ..
okey.. I give up... as much as I love the TTA .. Sorry Its just not competitive now days... a new ZO6 will hand it its ass in EVERYTHING !!! go drive one then tell me how the TTA is competitive.
Go from a roll with a CHipped SL65 and tell me how that works out for the TTA ..@ about 80 mph the SL65 has checked out and is in the next county ..
take them for what they are.. great cars for their time... but they are dinosaurs now.
Street Lethal
Tech Anarchist
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But the reality is, and the POINT of the matter is, your "technology" is anything but. The LT5, an engine produced in the mid to late 80's, then graced the 90's Corvette, is way more of an engine from a technological standpoint than anything being built today from General Motors. Didn't need a supercharger, didn't need a turbo charger, and is absolute death now when an owner installs either one on them today. A four valve per cylinder LC2 cylinder head? Well, if the demand was there, I am sure Arao will build them, but it isn't, so he doesn't, but to think that it can't happen is ridiculous. A "cam-in-cam" camshaft by MAHLE for the LC2? Yes, they do exist, simply place your order and they will design one for you based on your specs, but nobody wants to invest in them. As for me not being competitive, my traditional SBC with old fashioned distributor (remember them?), and flat tappet cam, and Tuned Port Injection, will blow away anything that you roll up next to me in, so what does it matter to me?
Calloway Corvette engineering created a 250+mph Corvette called the Sledgehammer that was as docile as it was fast, an everyday driven vehicle, ran tens in the 1/4 BABIED out of the hole, with a top speed of 250+mph, built in the 80's, and comparable to the Buggatti. Anything being built today from Ford or GM that can make such a claim with today's technology? Polly Trans Am created a 270+mph vehicle with a BBC and a Procharger, an everyday driven vehicle, and will tear any UGR lambo or AMS GTR a new one from a highway pull in any gear. In fact, an F3R Procharger will provide enough air to make over 3000 horsepower, so what the hell does it matter what a new Coyote engine, or new L98 engine can do? Who cares. Nothing has changed from a technological standpoint, it is still air, fuel, spark, weight and gears. Perhaps they have become more "refine" thanks to faster processors with greater resolution, but put those same ECU's on an older engine and you will get the same smoothness. You think it's the ENGINE design that allows an LSX to idle at 700-RPM with under 10" of vacuum lol? Think again, it's the processor...
A buddy of mine with a 2011 coyote just went 9.94@138 with a 4100 pound race weight and a 1.55' short time. The ONLY thing done to the motor was rods/pistons and a vortech supercharger. It still has the stock automatic too. If that thing didn't have a 300+ pound driver and cut a 1.40' short time, it would easily run 9.60's. (the pass was in ideal weather too though)
Yeah, I could hang with that car, if I ran a GN head, had a built shortblock and ran it on "kill".
My point is that you could easily have "some chump" with a late model that could be hard to beat with a turbo buick even if you know what you're doing and run it set to kill-mode.
Yeah, I could hang with that car, if I ran a GN head, had a built shortblock and ran it on "kill".
My point is that you could easily have "some chump" with a late model that could be hard to beat with a turbo buick even if you know what you're doing and run it set to kill-mode.
Bring your new Z06 or chipped SL65 here. 2 old tech cars here ready to race you. One of them is a 109 brick regal too. Gladly race from a 75mph roll up to 150mph
BPE2013@hotmail.com
Street Lethal
Tech Anarchist
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I'm always one for new technology, but I haven't see anything yet that hasn't already been done, or thought about doing. That is why I love the guys over at Nelson Racing, 1000 horsepower to them is a joke, 2000 horsepower is the norm, and they do this with what you would refer to as old technology, SBC/BBC, BOP engines, Chrysler engines, you name it. They build them their way, the right way, they allow for them to breath. I would love to invite those guys to this thread, or even see what they feel they can do with the ole LC2, and I can guarantee they would make it freaking scream...
... and this beast was obviously based on the old LT5 engine.
... and this beast was obviously based on the old LT5 engine.
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Careful Brian .. my GN is a click quicker than your 138 mph car .. and from a 75 mph roll the GN is no match at all for the SL65 with the ECU's modded ... @ 100 mph I might as well of hit a wall @ 150 I don't think I would even be able to tell what kind of car he had .... the real shitty part is that he can do that with his seat massagers on and one hand on the wheel while i'm hangin on for dear life in the GN at that speed.
I'm sure your GN can cover him at the track in the 1/4 .. no doubts.. but it better because that's all the GN is good for .. it can't do shit else and in the street the SL would eat it up and spit it out.
your seriously gonna bring Nelson into this thread WTF ! that's histarical ... yeah there is the definition of street car
Come on for what he charges for a motor and turbo setup that will make your 2000 hp ... you could own a NEW ZO6 out right ! How much brains does it take to get 2000 hp out of a 500 CID twin turbo using prostock parts !
you keep bringing up cars like the Sledgehammer and all the 1 off cars .. They made 1 sledgehammer vette that did 250 mph .. the cars I am talking about are everyday regular production cars that are all over and run on factory stock TIRES ! and run in the 10's !
Ok im done with this thread keep the blinders on
