what a let down this morning

[tb3]

I never come in here anymore due to lack of time, but I'm sitting here twidling my thumbs till a part comes in, and I just have to vent my frustrations.
My 86t is my driver, great shape, runs really strong for no more upgrades than I've done, and I've got it tuned pretty well. I just retuned for the cooler weather coming in, and I'm at 17 psi with zero knock on the crappy 93 octane around here. Car easily knocks off a second gear scratch thanks to the manual boost controller I just installed, and will scratch a 2-3 shift pretty easy too if I'm at wot. I've running all the suspension and body braces, variable rate rear springs, bilstein shocks. Car is loaded with all the options including astro, but I try to never carry anything with me thats not nessecary. I've done the Fbody hollow bar but that weight savings would be canceled out by the braces I installed. I'm right at 170 lbs, and I love the performance with just me in the car, even when my gal is in the car it doesn't seem to even notice, and she says she's 115 lbs (yeah right, more like 125 babydoll )
So's I go out this morning to take my dad for a ride in it for the first time, temperature was high 50's with almost zero humidity. My dads probably sittin right at 240 lbs, and the car felt like a slug. what a let down. He acted like he was impressed, but he was just trying to make me feel good I guess.
Guess if I'm going to be set on only running 30 lb injectors and stock rebuilt turbo since its my driver and I want to keep milage decent,... then I'll have to be happy with the performance with just me in it. :frown:

 

[NASSTY]

Get an alky kit and impress your dad with 25psi of boost. :biggrin:

 

[John Larkin]

100 lbs is 0.1 ET. I doubt your dad's weight affected performance dramatically. Cold weather can make your car run lean; air is more dense. Richen it a little, take baby steps....

 

[ijames]

For a 14 sec, 280 hp, 3900 lb car (with driver), 200 lbs is .11 sec on average so I think it was the tune shifting not the weight. [For a 10.0 sec, 680 hp, 3500 lb car with driver, 100 lbs is 0.14 seconds .] The turbo really won't affect the mileage at all unless your foot is down, and I think that up to at least the 50's and probably 60 lb/hr injectors the mileage won't drop from them either. Same with a front mount or better stock location intercooler. Better downpipe, less restrictive cat, and less restrictive cat back exhaust will only help mileage. Going to a K&N style air filter also shouldn't change anything. Only problem with all that is the phrase "unless your foot is down" .

 

[tb3]

What you guys are saying makes sense. I'm just confused why it felt sluggish with my old man in the car. I figured its just because thats an extra 240 lbs or so that was enough to make the car sluggish. And now that I think about it, I'm not even making sense. I play in a band, and when I load up my gear in the trunk, the car doesn't seem to be affected hardly at all by the weight, and with my 410 (4 10 inch speakers) speaker cab, and my all tube amp head, that is some serious freaking weight, I almost break my back everytime I load up because I'm trying to be so careful so I dont drag or set anything down on the rubber trunk seal. With that, my pedals, and my guitars in the back seat, thats got to be 200 lbs easy, maybe more, tube amp heads are extremely heavy. Is it because all that weight has been loaded behind the rear tires?

When I retuned the car a couple weeks ago, I just added some timing in the turbotweak chip, and turned up the boost a little bit. I don't have a adjustable fpr. But I had posted asking for advice before I did any mods, and was advised that adjusting fuel pressure isn't nearly as important as it was years ago because of modern chips, I even asked turbotweak, and was told I'd probably be ok with the bosch 237, but theres a chance it might not. Guess I better put that next on my list eh? I was getting right at 43 line off with it though.

I've been dumping, blowing, wasting (whatever you want to call it :tongue: ) lots of money into my 84 hot air gn lately, so funds for the t are pretty slim right now, I have been planning my next performance mods for the t would be a good used 3" integrated dp if I can find one, and then maybe a alky kit. I'm gonna do the fbod radiator in the spring.
I was under the assumption that a bigger turbo and injectors would affect my highway and cruise milage because of more air flow needed going through the larger compressor wheel, and would even affect my milage if I kept my foot out of the boost because of the higher stall I'd have to install due to bigger turbo.

I do have a test pipe in place of converter, I chose against a cai due to the car being a driver, figured the left fron tire slinging the road and weather elements all over that filter would not be good. I deleted bottom half of stock air box using kirbans washer method, and installed stock style k&n, and left factory ram air snorkel installed.

Its just odd, I am totally happy with performance with just me or me and a lighter person in the car, I rarely carry more than 1 passenger lately, so this morning was first time I noticed the car would just not pull as hard with my dads heavy butt in the car. Guess I got some reading to do. :redface:

 

[Roc87]

Last year I took my alky pump out to send to Julio for the upgraded pressure switch. While it was out I never got above 10# of boost, knocked down over 18MPG city driving with combo in sig. However, with the alky pump back in, for some strange reason, I can't get over 13mpg anymore:frown:

 

[need boost]

There is one more explaination. You are really in tune with your car! Did it feel right again after he got out of it? I know I can feel the diffrence in mine when I am alone or when I have someone in it with me. I took a friend for a ride the other week and he is a small guy about 150 or so. Nearly pissed himself lol, but you put my wifes dad in the car, around 260 or so and I can feel the car is slower from the extra weight but it does make it hook harder lol!!!!!!! Daniel Ray

 

[tb3]

car felt strong again after pops got out. actually, it wasn't all that bad in first and second gear, but still noticeable, it was at the higher speeds when I hammered it than the car didn't feel anywhere like it usually does. I can be doing about 55 on the highway, then put it to the floor to pass someone, and the car shifts down and lunges like a rocket and sails strong till I'm maxed out of turbo. (which I think is normal for the stock turbo?). It had nowhere near the reaction with dad in the car. It shifted down, boost went up, motor revved, all sounded like normal, but the usual power just wasn't there, kinda almost like a valve float feeling. Only guages I've installed in it is the vdo boost and water temp guages. I don't want pillar guages as they attract attention cause its a dd. I use direct scan but don't normally keep the laptop in the car for same reason. Would'a been nice to see if I was getting any knock with dad in the car at my max boost. I guess its time for a audible knock detector. I'm going to install new valve springs also. The engine has 124,000 on it.

I think john larkin has a good point about fuel, I'm going to get a adj regulator and go back in and play with my 3rd/4th gear timing and see how it goes.

 

[murphster]

My stock turbo cars have sometimes felt like slugs when passengers are in them too. Its probably not as slow as it feels though. It took my car getting into the 11s before I felt like it was fast on the highway with a passenger in it.

The cars aren't known for their top end in stock form, so if I were wanting to impress someone I'd make lots of turns down side roads and do a lot of 1-2 shifts to show off the low end torque.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Yea, do the valve springs and maybe a new timing set, get some good gas, and turn up that boost a little.
your fuel seems good, but you still got a little air in/air out issues. Do you have a solid maf pipe? what size and brand of air filter do you run? If not, get a solid aluminum maf pipe, and throw a good 8" AFE cone filter on the end. the other cheap things you can do to a stock setup is get a duttweiler neck for the intercooler, port the turbo and exhaust elbow, get a new billet inlet bell from kirbans, and check your exhaust. do you have a cat converter? what type of mufflers are you running?
Maybe try a 95-98 octane chip as well.
Also, hows your cooling system?
You do those little mods I told you, and I promise the car will feel different.

 

[Turbo Indian]

you have a good pump so find a set of used 009 inj., a ta61 turbo, valve springs, timing set, & a 3" downpipe & you will NOT be disappointed. for less that $1,000.oo you can get above 24mpg (depending on driving) & if you are not scared of boost, throw some c16 in the tank when you go to the track & run DEEP into the low 11's.

 

[GNandGS]

My beetle is really sensitive to weight... never really noticed in the Buick. The diff between underpowered and overpowered

 

[tb3]

thanks for replys guys. I have to do my mods in baby steps so I can stay on top of my learning curve. Monday I'm ordering duttweiler neck for the stock intercooler, and the valve springs kirbans sells. I'm hoping I can get another psi of boost with the dutt neck. Theres a gal that works the dairy queen drive thru that always compliments me on my car, she probably tips the scales at about 350 lbs, after I've installed and retuned, maybe I'll offer her a ride and see if theres any improvement

 

[Turbo Indian]

don't waste your $ on that neck. save the $ for something useful.

 

[Junior Samples]

better yet have large marge from the dairy queen run along side your car while she carrys your tube amps to your next gig... man i love tube amps, cant duplicate that sound with digital.

Really i think the issue was you were trying to impress your dad and the cars spidey sence kicked in, if you said hey pop lets run to store and without thought you passed some sunday driver, dad woulda said whoa nelly

 

[tb3]

ARRRGGHH!!! your killing me here. The write ups claim that you will probably see 2 psi increase with the dutt neck. I don't want a fm on a daily driver, I also don't want a stock mount that comes down any lower than the stocker.
I'm definetly doing the new springs.
Are you suggesting that something like a good 3" dp with integrated wastegate would be a better upgrade before a dutt neck intercooler? I don't want to install alky until after I've done the fbod rad conversion, and that won't be until spring. I've got the funds to do new springs and a extra couple hundred that I had planned on using to buy the dutt neck from kirbans then have a good welder weld it on for me. I've actually already used half that 2 hundred to buy a used stocker to have the new neck put on so I don't have any down time on my daily driver.
You guys better be glad I don't live close to any of you. I'd be the annoying guy always coming over to your garage hanging out, asking stupid questions about "which mod next"?. :frown:

 

[Turbo Indian]

tb3 there are no stupid questions when you are just starting out. now if you have been around them for quite some time that is a different story.:biggrin: