What gains with GN1 heads on 109 block?

[TurboTnZ06]

The parts that are used as air flows in ->

TE45a.60, V4, 210/210 billet hyd roller, stock TB, PTE 70mm doghouse and RJC Powerplate, stock intake, 60# inj and JayC chip, stock irons bowl ported only, stock headers, 3 inch dp.

What would I gain if I went with ported GN1's with bigger valves? Also if I port matched the intake to head and head to header?

I'm only running stock irons with stock sized valves and only the valves have been unshrouded in porting. NO int/exh ports opened up. The intake manifold to head ports are off by about 1/8th of an inch or more because of the material removed from the heads over time have lowered the heads effectively in relation to the intake. 2 rebuilds on the heads and the machine shop didn't follow my instructions on not removing material.

When I lived in Colorado, I raced at Bandimere, it ran 11.2 @ 122 to 126 mph on maxed out 48# injectors. Now in FL at sea level I have only made one pass with one mod 60#inj and matching chip, 10.921 @ 126.95. I think I can add a few more #'s of boost. I've decided that my limiting factor here is the un-port matched, un-runner ported stock sized valve heads that have bumped up the compression. The runners aren't even smoothed out, they are as cast from the factory. If memory serves, I used 0.055 thick cometic HG's.

I'm running all billet main caps and wiseco pistons 35 over, stock rods, stock crank 20 under.

I'm bored since the Turbo T is getting painted and the Z06 is torn apart in my garage with tranny issues and I have to drive my near stock 13 sec GN in the meantime- boohoo I miss going fast...

 

[forcedfedv6]

I say going with alluminums you could shave off an easy half second to a full second on the same amount of boost, so figure another 80 to 100 hp.

 

[SGRIM]

Are you talking aluminum? What are your goals?

Properly matched ported irons & intake can go really fast....

Aluminum off the shelf heads aren't going to give you that big a gain....

TA's are awesome too btw!

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Let's say mid 9's. I already trapped 126.95 off the foot brake and 3-4 psi boost on MT ET Drag 28x9's. And it was so long ago I can't remember the exact boost. I have an 18# spring in the gate, and a 7 psi increase over that on the Bstc. 18 + 7 = 25 psi. So anything in the 24-27 range I suspect is what I ran at sealevel. At 5800ft I ran 27 psi boost to trap 126 locked in 3rd. At sealevel I don't remember locking the converter when I trapped 126. I know at 5800ft up, if I didn't lock the converter in 3rd it would trap 122-124 mph mph.

Oh, and race gas.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

At the end of the day I need another 10-15 mph in the 1/4, right?

I still need to send Bruce at PTS my spare BRF to get a brake put in it with all the goodies to get a good 60 ft.

 

[SGRIM]

Well you are looking in the right direction! You are going to need a stronger bottom end and a bigger more updated turbo as well... Mid 9's consistently is possible, that is what the top TSM guys average...

 

[TurboTnZ06]

I just remembered, A/C is working and I have ARP head studs. The engine has to come out b/c my back does not like working on a car.

At least I can pull the motor out by myself in a few hours. I have that procedure down pretty well. Going back in is the hard part. That sets me up to send the converter off for reflashing...

I should be able to go 10.0 with the 45a if the planets are aligned. I like this turbo, pulls like a freight train...

The 20 under crank is probably not smart in a 125+ mph full weight car. Might as well use better rods if I'm going that route.

Might as well do the RJC girdle.

Would it be easier to build a fresh engine from DLS with a goal in mind and keep this 109, slap the 44 on it and buy a roller GN for cheap?

 

[Nick Micale]

In the "days" before there was a 70 turbo, we used many TE-45A's and loved them - still do. But is see no way you are going to run 9's with it!:smile:

Mid-10's is where it is very happy, push it to the max and low 10's. The rest of your combo is not ready for low 10's, much less in the 9's, especially the injectors.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

I know my combo is good for what it does now "easy tens off the foot brake" which I why I want to plan the next step because I know I will want to drive my T all the time when it comes back painted in 2009 Corvette Cyber Gray in a couple few weeks or so

Maybe easy tens off the footbrake is where I should stop with this car and start upgrading the GN?

Mid 9's upgrades I would end up doing:
- 60# injectors not enough, buy new injectors
- stock ecm not enough? need XFI?
- stock driveshaft- need stronger, 1350's
- upgrade tranny, have spare BRF to get rebuilt with brake, billet parts
- c clip elims needed
- convert to rear disc brakes since we're there for c-clip elim
- reflash converter (I think one free one with 9/11 purchased)
- bigger turbo, 70+
- GN1 heads and port match intake and exhaust
- RJC girdle and reuse all billet caps
- Forged crank (DLS stroker ?) forged rods
- rebuild oil pump, clearance it
- water pump, might as well replace since its easy
- passenger side HR poly engine mount to make it a match
- toss the Atr gate and upgrade to Tial 38.
- single external fuel pump to replace single intank 340
- bigger fuel lines to replace bottleneck fittings of stock lines
- fuel cutoff switch on rear
- new head gaskets, rest of engine might as well
- bearing set
- new plugs
- oil and filter
- a/c is leaking at compressor, rebuild that
- recharge a/c 134a
- sfi balancer to replace stock one that wobbles
- sfi tranny shield
- sfi blanket under engine


Anything else that could blow my budget?

 

[coach]

I just had a similar talk with Eric Marshall a few days ago. I am shooting for 11 flat turn key, with mid to low 10's at the track with a Te45a. He informed me, that I would run out of injector at 60#ers. He said 79's with no ECM mod. He also said 340 pump would only push enough for 10.5's or so. I am not looking to run this turbo to the max, but I do not want to push my injectors or my pump to hard either. I will do the 79's and was wondering if they make an inline booster pump?
Do you have it caged? I see this in my crystal ball for you...I am staying away from that. I have a seriously caged car already and dents in my skull from getting in it.
Good luck on your build, sounds very solid.
Thanks
Coach

 

[TurboTnZ06]

I just had a similar talk with Eric Marshall a few days ago. I am shooting for 11 flat turn key, with mid to low 10's at the track with a Te45a. He informed me, that I would run out of injector at 60#ers. He said 79's with no ECM mod. He also said 340 pump would only push enough for 10.5's or so. I am not looking to run this turbo to the max, but I do not want to push my injectors or my pump to hard either. I will do the 79's and was wondering if they make an inline booster pump?
Do you have it caged? I see this in my crystal ball for you...I am staying away from that. I have a seriously caged car already and dents in my skull from getting in it.
Good luck on your build, sounds very solid.
Thanks
Coach

For you 60# injectors is plenty for 11.0's, but you might as well do 79's for no ecm mod if you have to buy injectors.

 

[forcedfedv6]

For you 60# injectors is plenty for 11.0's, but you might as well do 79's for no ecm mod if you have to buy injectors.

60 pnds injector are good enough from 720fwhp, so figure 710 minus 15% drivetrain loss would put you right around 612rwph, good enough to get you in the high 9's without a problem but running them to the max at 100% duty cycle, so be very careful.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

60 pnds injector are good enough from 720fwhp, so figure 710 minus 15% drivetrain loss would put you right around 612rwph, good enough to get you in the high 9's without a problem but running them to the max at 100% duty cycle, so be very careful.

Hmm, I dyno'd 595 rwhp and 695 rwtq.

 

[forcedfedv6]

Hmm, I dyno'd 595 rwhp and 695 rwtq.

What was the duty cycle like with your 60 pnd injectors i bet they were pretty damn close to maxing out, how much boost, it takes at least 650rwhp to break into the high 9's with a good sixty foot.

 

[bison]

I know my combo is good for what it does now "easy tens off the foot brake" which I why I want to plan the next step because I know I will want to drive my T all the time when it comes back painted in 2009 Corvette Cyber Gray in a couple few weeks or so

Maybe easy tens off the footbrake is where I should stop with this car and start upgrading the GN?

Mid 9's upgrades I would end up doing:
- 60# injectors not enough, buy new injectors
- stock ecm not enough? need XFI?
- stock driveshaft- need stronger, 1350's
- upgrade tranny, have spare BRF to get rebuilt with brake, billet parts
- c clip elims needed
- convert to rear disc brakes since we're there for c-clip elim
- reflash converter (I think one free one with 9/11 purchased)
- bigger turbo, 70+
- GN1 heads and port match intake and exhaust
- RJC girdle and reuse all billet caps
- Forged crank (DLS stroker ?) forged rods
- rebuild oil pump, clearance it
- water pump, might as well replace since its easy
- passenger side HR poly engine mount to make it a match
- toss the Atr gate and upgrade to Tial 38.
- single external fuel pump to replace single intank 340
- bigger fuel lines to replace bottleneck fittings of stock lines
- fuel cutoff switch on rear
- new head gaskets, rest of engine might as well
- bearing set
- new plugs
- oil and filter
- a/c is leaking at compressor, rebuild that
- recharge a/c 134a
- sfi balancer to replace stock one that wobbles
- sfi tranny shield
- sfi blanket under engine


Anything else that could blow my budget?

I wouldnt even waste my time with a stock block for mid 9's. Not worth it imo. Id forget about the 200 unless you are familiar with pulling the trans and fixing it regularly. The A PTC 9.5" is a must. The 400 would cost half the amount of the 200 and be much more consistent. Id do a 4 bolt turbo stage 2 setup that uses stock style heads like race ported GN1's or race ported TA's. You could still retain a hydrauilc cam at that level. Others have done it with stock blocks but they were forced to by the rules (TSM). Not because they wanted to use the stock block. 3 bolt turbos leave a lot on the table at that level. I dont know what you have for a suspension setup but it will need a lot of attention also. You will need an 8.50 cage.

 

[bison]

60 pnds injector are good enough from 720fwhp, so figure 710 minus 15% drivetrain loss would put you right around 612rwph, good enough to get you in the high 9's without a problem but running them to the max at 100% duty cycle, so be very careful.

Why would anyone risk that when they are spending thousands trying to go faster. Injectors larger than 60's are plentiful and cheap. A minimum of 6 83's would be normal for that level.

 

[SGRIM]

We are going to try to break into the 9.90's category with 60's. IF it happens it will be very hard and it will be TUNED TO DEATH BY JAY:biggrin: If we do it we will probably pull them out and step up, it is just to risky.... Grumpy did it with alky and it was an amazing job!!!!!

 

[Sweet6]

Since you are in FL now. Give Cal Hartline a call. He has a lot of experience with 9 sec stock blocks.

 

[8AV8]

I hit 100% DC at 10.8x's with a te45a and 60's...FWIW. Home port heads and intake. Stock stroke and bore. This was with 114. Coulda got a little more out of C16.

Injectors are too cheap for me to experiment with how much I can get out of them. Compared to a new engine anyway....

 

[bison]

We are going to try to break into the 9.90's category with 60's. IF it happens it will be very hard and it will be TUNED TO DEATH BY JAY:biggrin: If we do it we will probably pull them out and step up, it is just to risky.... Grumpy did it with alky and it was an amazing job!!!!!

Why risk a lean out? If your not adding alky its too risky imo. With a lot of alky i could see it being no problem. Im in the low to mid 60's for DC on mine and i have 40% more injector. Im running 11.3:1. Its going to be damn hard unless the car is very light.