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what imrpovements would you want to see?

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darkfa8

- driving everywhere -
Joined
May 25, 2001
Messages
402
Just curious, of the various alky kits out there...what kind of refinements would be beneificial to helping you max out the capabilities of the alky mix?

Better pumps? Injector based system? EGT sensing system? Microprocessor controller with programmable boost on points/egt range/o2 volts range ... etc ...?

- just curious ;)
 
Definitely full-computerized control units. It would be nice to have a means of having pump speeds vary or increase with rpm, a way to run two nozzles with seperate adjustments (triggered by seperate solenoids), and a built in feature that will instantly kill boost when a preset limit of knock occurs(never know when something could go wrong, good way to save h-gaskets).
 
conditions

under what conditions should the alky be on?

only under boost?

during a certain rpm range?

as a hypothetical... if you are at WOT and under boost, do you need more alky to suppress top-end knock or less than when you first launch?

How does the amount of alky needed during a 0-WOT blast look as far as a chart or some sort of demand chart?

Steve Yaklin uses a Mallory fuel pressure regulator (#4210) to control the pressure of the alky going to his nozzles...pump speed is constant, however, the fuel pressure regulator can be changed to meet demands...
 
I think it depends on ones combo, thats why I would want it to be computer controlled for predictable adjustability. I can run max of 18#s w/o the alky so I have it cut on at 15-16#s, others may need it lower. High rpm and 'high' timing will obviously need more alky on the high end, but that is far from WOT only situations. I'd like to see a chart like that too if anyone here has one.
I'm still kind of basic with my car cause the funds simply are not there(READ: COLLEGE) for me to go further with mods. Sucks
 
I have one of Eric's D.P.S. units and use it to record boost with a display I built for it under WOT runs. It works great and is very accurate as a control module.

I tested one in our lab. and it calibrated within a half psi. :)
 
hmm

Why the 3 nozzles?

What boost "on" points do you set them at?

What kind of solenoids do you use Fuel or NOS type solenoids?

Isn't there a delay from the time the pump spins up to the time all nozzles are on?

When you're at WOT are all 3 nozzles on or do you progressively or sequentially turn them off?

How do you tune it to keep the system from flooding the chambers with alky?

Can you use something other than boost pressure as a trigger? Such as Injector Pulse Width...ESC Knock...RPM?

thanks,
 
Dan,

"Why the 3 nozzles?"
I am using 3 (as opposed to 1) to more evenly distribute the flow of alcohol across the boost range. This prevents bogging or knocking at various part throttle conditions, and allows a small amount of alcohol to come on early to prevent "transitional" knock as some call it.

"What boost "on" points do you set them at?"
I am still experimenting with this (as always), but I typically have the 2 smaller Aquamist nozzles come on at 5 and 9psi, then the bigger NOS type nozzle at about 12psi.

"What kind of solenoids do you use Fuel or NOS type solenoids?"
The solenoids are not fuel or nos specific, but are for any fluid, and are chemical resistant because they are made of plastic (polypropylene I believe). I am still testing them for longevity, but they are almost a year old now and I've run quite a bit of methanol through them.

"Isn't there a delay from the time the pump spins up to the time all nozzles are on? "
I activate the pump at about 2psi to "precharge" the system. There is some pressure loss if the pump is in the trunk, so I will be installing a 125psi pump back there soon to see if that helps. Right now I have fuel injection pump up front to reduce pressure loss.

"When you're at WOT are all 3 nozzles on or do you progressively or sequentially turn them off? "
All 3 nozzles are on at WOT. I have never had a need to reduce flow as the car accelerates, especially when you get to the load of 3rd gear.

"How do you tune it to keep the system from flooding the chambers with alky? "
I'm not certain I understand the question. I am using the nos nozzle as the "main" nozzle and it has changable jets that regulate the flow. If I needed more or less total flow of alcohol, that is the jet I would change. I use the Aquamist nozzles for the lower boost levels because they can flow a smaller amount and still have good spray pattern.

"Can you use something other than boost pressure as a trigger? Such as Injector Pulse Width...ESC Knock...RPM? "
I am sure there are many ways one could trigger the alcy. The controller on my system was designed as a pressure switch only. This seemed like the most logical way to do this, as its mainly the higher boost pressure that causes knock (and high timing, but I stay away from that). Aquamist does make a system that steals a signal from one of your injectors to pulse a solenoid. But what happens if your using a lean spool chip? If you control from ESC knock, the knock would have already happened, but it would be a good safety device.

I would recommend doing a search for Bob Avellar and Steve Hill. They (among others) have done extensive experimentation with water/alcohol injection, and both use multistage systems. I have learned a lot from their writings.

Eric
 
What about TPS input? So as soon as WOT happens, the pump and maybe a small nozzle is activated. I think Steve Hill uses something like this.

Also, what if the boost rate of change could be factored in. So if the boost is climbing fast, the spray would come on a little sooner.

Just thinking out loud.

Eric
 
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