What the.... happened here

[FastRegalWE2]

Saturday DAY

Saturday NIGHT

Lucky in love, hmmm, maybe. Lucky in Turbo Buicks, oh hell no.

Torqued theses things in sequence 40#, then 10# increments. #5 looks perfectly fine where as #1 and #3 look like they werent sealing to begine with. 21PSI, NO KNOCK

 

[MIB]

Jeff what RPM were you at? I thought your motor had cometics. What was your final torque on the head studs? You are an unlucky guy .

 

[TurboDave]

Where did all that oil in all the combustion chambers come from? It (oil) was blasted against the header pipe too.

 

[67turboCamaro]

Dowell pins to high???

 

[Louie L.]

Dowell pins to high???

Exactly. That gasket did not compress. Either it was not torqued to spec or the dowels held it off the deck.

 

[Nick Micale]

If the pins were too high, all the cyls would not seal and there would not have been enough cylinder pressure and heat to blow out just no. 3?

If the head gasket was not seated properly, it would have been leaking from the start, and "tracks" would be seen on the gasket at all cyls, especially no. 3.

Have changed many gaskets like that where the owners say they did not see or record knock. This is especially true with motors run with alchy and/or pump gas, but can also happen with race gas. Just replaced one like that a couple weeks ago on a car that "never" showed knock?

Pre-ignition and/or detonation can happen, and not be seen, heard or recorded.

You probably want to pull the other head also, as usually damage that severe is not limited to just one head. Sorry for your mis-fortune, as I feel your pain, very frustrating.

 

[FastRegalWE2]

I dont believe it was the pins, the steel shims didnt blow. They leaked boost under highy pressure but there were no signs of pre ignition, n damage of any kind, just where the oil seeped by into the valley and the side of the block. I believe the TQ was not right, I believe. I absolutely will remove the other head and I think cometics are going on this time. Time to invest in a GOOD TQ wrench. I thought the one I had was good, but, I guess its not.

 

[KL Mallender]

Tune up related= too much timing advance at Tq peak. combustion chamber looks Rich, but not indicitive of conditions during failure, use of EGT gauge during operation will assist you in reaching "Proper timing Map". It takes very little time to Map timing curves correctly in comparison to Failure Repair, Be thankfull you didnt have heads "Locked Down" just yet, Gasket failure is engine`s nice way of informing you , I DID NOT LIKE THAT. Do not guess at this unless you Like being Confused by results, Your engine wants what IT wants, It will "Talk" if You listen, and no I dont mean by Knock Sensor. Info is availible if you willing to learn. Good Luck, KLM.:wink:

 

[FastRegalWE2]

Tune up related= too much timing advance at Tq peak. combustion chamber looks Rich, but not indicitive of conditions during failure, use of EGT gauge during operation will assist you in reaching "Proper timing Map". It takes very little time to Map timing curves correctly in comparison to Failure Repair, Be thankfull you didnt have heads "Locked Down" just yet, Gasket failure is engine`s nice way of informing you , I DID NOT LIKE THAT. Do not guess at this unless you Like being Confused by results, Your engine wants what IT wants, It will "Talk" if You listen, and no I dont mean by Knock Sensor. Info is availible if you willing to learn. Good Luck, KLM.:wink:

Im only running 20* timing on the high side and 22* on the low side. Same tune I was just running with the steel shims. Alky was on too. I have and EGT, and FAST. It went boom real quick.
Thanks for the replies. Gonna have the heads checked for surface, though they were just cut .008. I think its time to let the car sit for awhile.

 

[KL Mallender]

I hope everything checks out good, You may want to check piston to head clearence total with head gasket thickness in mind .020 - .040 total running clearence will be what you are looking for, anything more than .0625 will be asking for gasket seperation, it will be much better for your engine reguardless of parts combinations, Also recheck your timing #s at the crank vs data readout, dont be suprised/Alarmed if they dont match, it just has to be corrected/accounted for. Your 20* degrees might not be exactly that at the crank. Take a minute or two to understand that your engine revolted to the conditions it was under and does not care what WE may think or compare it to, It KNOWS, its up to you to make it happy doing what all engines dream of doing, Twisting the snot out of anything attached to it. Later KLM.

 

[FastRegalWE2]

I hope everything checks out good, You may want to check piston to head clearence total with head gasket thickness in mind .020 - .040 total running clearence will be what you are looking for, anything more than .0625 will be asking for gasket seperation, it will be much better for your engine reguardless of parts combinations, Also recheck your timing #s at the crank vs data readout, dont be suprised/Alarmed if they dont match, it just has to be corrected/accounted for. Your 20* degrees might not be exactly that at the crank. Take a minute or two to understand that your engine revolted to the conditions it was under and does not care what WE may think or compare it to, It KNOWS, its up to you to make it happy doing what all engines dream of doing, Twisting the snot out of anything attached to it. Later KLM.

thanks, Im def going check things out. Im investing in a new TQ wrench as well. Just pulled the other side and I could feel a difference in resistance in the bolts when I cracked them loose.
heres the right side

 

[KL Mallender]

Ahhh sweet sister #6.

Your sweet heart is talking, Brother can you keep her from YELLING.
Do your checks, analize, Then Identify, She only knows what she Don`t enjoy. You Did right by checking, She`s gonna make You "Proud Papa". keep us sideline Daddys informed, I think you will benefit from what you about learn. KLM.

 

[MIB]

Yea, I'd say you did right checking the other side. Your motor screams. It's a good thing that she let you know something was wrong, early. I would double check everything mentioned above and switch to the cometics. Is this the same tune in FAST you had in it before?

 

[FastRegalWE2]

Yea, I'd say you did right checking the other side. Your motor screams. It's a good thing that she let you know something was wrong, early. I would double check everything mentioned above and switch to the cometics. Is this the same tune in FAST you had in it before?

No, not the same tune. It was a street tune (with alky) I've been working on cause I cant get my old one back. Been trying. A laptop is screwed up and it cant come off of it or something. I've been trying to get my original tune back since I deleted the file, accidentally, back in JANUARY . . The steel shims were leaking like a SOB, which is why I switched to these. I checked my TQ and spent 5 hrs doing the heads. Thought I had it right but when I loosened them last night I could feel the diff in resistance as I broke them loose. Im so freaking done with this pile. :frown: I closed the hood and put all the stuff in the trunk. Im not sure at this point what the next step should be. Maybe sell this crap and get the V8 turbo swap going. I have never never never had so many problems with 1 piece of iron. It isnt like that was the first set of heads I've put on. I have never had a set blow out before. My friends 01 SS 425rwhp (N/A) through 9" Ford, 100hp dry shot, is holding up fine after a year on the car. I did all the work to that car, it still runs fine. So does my old Z28 that I heads/cammed.

 

[MIB]

Hang in there! I know you will get it right. You have the parts, the rest is in the set-up and tune. Your car should easily run in the 9's when you get all the small stuff taken care of. I am having the some problems tuning w/MOTEC. Nobody around here can even give me pointers. I am slowly tuning and learning the cause and effects by changing one thing at a time. I have been lucky so far on the motor.

 

[FastRegalWE2]

WTH is MOTEC?

 

[MIB]

Look it up on the internet. www.motec.com. They build some bad as... engine management systems. You can use it to run everything from chainsaws to top fuel motors. You better have your wallet ready though.

 

[FastRegalWE2]

here is the left bank. Same type irregularities as the right bank
these are measured across where the red lines are. Measurements for the gasket areas themselves are from .062-.065 even around the bolt holes themselves.

might have to save the images and then open them to read the numbers or right click and hit properties and follow the url to where they are. The pics are actually bigger than this

Looks like it wasnt tight enough?? Crappy TQ wrench??? Since the compressed thickness is supposed to be .060-.063?????

 

[87TIGN]

I dont believe it was the pins, the steel shims didnt blow. They leaked boost under highy pressure but there were no signs of pre ignition, n damage of any kind, just where the oil seeped by into the valley and the side of the block. I believe the TQ was not right, I believe. I absolutely will remove the other head and I think cometics are going on this time. Time to invest in a GOOD TQ wrench. I thought the one I had was good, but, I guess its not.

I am really sorry I dont mean to thread jack or be rude but I am trying to learn as much as I can before I begin my assembly... I have NO idea what the "pins" or "steel shims" or "cometics" are?? Could someone please explain so I too dont have to go throught this??? Also good luck on figuring this issue out. I wish you the best!!
-Andrew

 

[FastRegalWE2]

I am really sorry I dont mean to thread jack or be rude but I am trying to learn as much as I can before I begin my assembly... I have NO idea what the "pins" or "steel shims" or "cometics" are?? Could someone please explain so I too dont have to go throught this??? Also good luck on figuring this issue out. I wish you the best!!
-Andrew

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