What turbo do i have

[black cars boosted]

I took off most of the piping and measured inlet side/ compressor side and it measured 70mm didn;t remove down pipe side to measure but there are lots of smart guys on here that's been playing with these cars, switching out everything..
throttle body measures 75MM
front mount intercooler
GN1 aluminum heads
50# injectors ( just took out) what should i replace with?
stand alone ecm
hot wire with dual walbro 342 in tank fuel pump
just to name a few..

 

[RUQWKNF]

First off, welcome aboard.

You can't tell what size the turbo is by measuring just the compressor cover or downpipe openings. You must take the compressor cover off and measure the inducer and exducer of the compressor wheel to know exactly what size the compressor wheel is. You also need to do the same to the turbine wheel by taking the turbine housing off and measuring the inducer and exducer of it as well, in order to know for certain what it is. However, removing the turbine housing on an older, rusted turbine housing is a real PITA and not easily done.

That looks like an E compressor cover, (3" inlet, 2" discharge) commonly used on TE44 and TE60 turbos from way back. It also has a cast twin 7 blade compressor wheel which IIRC was a TE60 wheel, but I could be mistaken. I also spy a 3" ATR downpipe with their external wastegate peeking out.

Here's some ways to check.

If it has a Precision turbine housing on the hot side, chances are it was made by Precision or Limit Engineering back in the day before PTE starting casting their own compressor covers, circa 2002ish. Here are a few things to look for.

Take off one of the backing plate clamps that bolt the compressor cover (cold side) to the backing plate. You are looking for these letters followed by two numbers, CCExx. So CCE44 or CCE60. Obviously CCE44 would mean it's a TE44 and CCE60 would mean it's a TE60. See attached photo for the backing plate clamp circled in red. Bolts are 13mm or 1/2" and are typically hand tigtened in a criss cross fashion when put back together. There should be 2 clamps. One that's 3 holes and one that has the wastegate welded to it. But in your case with the external wastegate, you might have two clamps, or even just some washers through the bolts holding the compressor cover on. Somewhere behind those clamps, will be the CCE numbers machined into the compressor cover but there might not be any because of the age and a Garrett cover.

Seeing that yours has an older Garrett compressor cover, those CCE numbers might not be machined into the cover, but it never hurts to check.

You can also look at the turbine housing and see what A/R number it has. It will either be .63 A/R or .85 A/R on a Precision housing. 95% of the time the E cover turbos have a .63 A/R for quicker spooling.

If it has a Garrett turbine housing, it would either be a .63 A/R or a .82 A/R. The A/R number is located just above the 3 bolt header flange on both Precision and Garrett turbine housings. See pic.

If it has a Precision turbine housing, you can unbolt the downpipe and look on the turbine housing flange face for a part number. Precision machined a part number on their 3-bolt Buick housings that starts with THB. Meaning, Turbine Housing Buick. An example would be THB3-31 or THB5-52. The 3 means .63 A/R, 31 means a T-31 or Stage 3 turbine wheel. The 5 means .85 A/R and the 52 means T-350 or Stage 5 turbine wheel.
See pic.

If it is a Garrett turbine housing, the only markings will be the A/R number.
With that being an older turbo, the last ditch effort before removing the compressor cover and turbine housing and measuring both compressor and turbine wheels, would be to look on the compressor cover discharge for a hand engraved part number or model number. That's typically located here. See pic.

You're looking for TE-44, TE-60 or something similar.
Chances are, it's a TE-60, seeing that you had 50# injectors with it.


Spec'ing a replacement:

This has been a well worn topic for years, but is frequently brought back up due to turbo technology changing so frequently. All of the major turbo players are constantly coming out with new model turbos so it's understandable to see these questions brought up. Depending on your goals, there are a lot of combos that are out there now. The basic 6262 turbo with 60# injectors and what you have with proper tuning, is enough for 10's. If you were wanting to go faster and go with a cam swap to get the most out of those heads, the 80#ers and either a 6466 or 6766 turbo is enough for 9's with the right tuning, but those turbos need more converter if street driven.

It really comes down to what you want and your ultimate goals. As has been said numerous times before, 95% of the Turbo Buick owners never utilize what they have and go over board with turbo selection. Use the search feature and read up on the 6262, 6466 and 6766 turbo combos. Both Bison and PTE offer fantastic options for our cars.
Hope some of this helps and again, welcome aboard.

-Patrick-

 

[black cars boosted]

First off, welcome aboard.

You can't tell what size the turbo is by measuring just the compressor cover or downpipe openings. You must take the compressor cover off and measure the inducer and exducer of the compressor wheel to know exactly what size the compressor wheel is. You also need to do the same to the turbine wheel by taking the turbine housing off and measuring the inducer and exducer of it as well, in order to know for certain what it is. However, removing the turbine housing on an older, rusted turbine housing is a real PITA and not easily done.

That looks like an E compressor cover, (3" inlet, 2" discharge) commonly used on TE44 and TE60 turbos from way back. It also has a cast twin 7 blade compressor wheel which IIRC was a TE60 wheel, but I could be mistaken. I also spy a 3" ATR downpipe with their external wastegate peeking out.

Here's some ways to check.

If it has a Precision turbine housing on the hot side, chances are it was made by Precision or Limit Engineering back in the day before PTE starting casting their own compressor covers, circa 2002ish. Here are a few things to look for.

Take off one of the backing plate clamps that bolt the compressor cover (cold side) to the backing plate. You are looking for these letters followed by two numbers, CCExx. So CCE44 or CCE60. Obviously CCE44 would mean it's a TE44 and CCE60 would mean it's a TE60. See attached photo for the backing plate clamp circled in red. Bolts are 13mm or 1/2" and are typically hand tigtened in a criss cross fashion when put back together. There should be 2 clamps. One that's 3 holes and one that has the wastegate welded to it. But in your case with the external wastegate, you might have two clamps, or even just some washers through the bolts holding the compressor cover on. Somewhere behind those clamps, will be the CCE numbers machined into the compressor cover but there might not be any because of the age and a Garrett cover.

View attachment 333189

Seeing that yours has an older Garrett compressor cover, those CCE numbers might not be machined into the cover, but it never hurts to check.

You can also look at the turbine housing and see what A/R number it has. It will either be .63 A/R or .85 A/R on a Precision housing. 95% of the time the E cover turbos have a .63 A/R for quicker spooling.

If it has a Garrett turbine housing, it would either be a .63 A/R or a .82 A/R. The A/R number is located just above the 3 bolt header flange on both Precision and Garrett turbine housings. See pic.

View attachment 333192

If it has a Precision turbine housing, you can unbolt the downpipe and look on the turbine housing flange face for a part number. Precision machined a part number on their 3-bolt Buick housings that starts with THB. Meaning, Turbine Housing Buick. An example would be THB3-31 or THB5-52. The 3 means .63 A/R, 31 means a T-31 or Stage 3 turbine wheel. The 5 means .85 A/R and the 52 means T-350 or Stage 5 turbine wheel.
See pic.

View attachment 333194

If it is a Garrett turbine housing, the only markings will be the A/R number.
With that being an older turbo, the last ditch effort before removing the compressor cover and turbine housing and measuring both compressor and turbine wheels, would be to look on the compressor cover discharge for a hand engraved part number or model number. That's typically located here. See pic.

View attachment 333193

You're looking for TE-44, TE-60 or something similar.
Chances are, it's a TE-60, seeing that you had 50# injectors with it.


Spec'ing a replacement:

This has been a well worn topic for years, but is frequently brought back up due to turbo technology changing so frequently. All of the major turbo players are constantly coming out with new model turbos so it's understandable to see these questions brought up. Depending on your goals, there are a lot of combos that are out there now. The basic 6262 turbo with 60# injectors and what you have with proper tuning, is enough for 10's. If you were wanting to go faster and go with a cam swap to get the most out of those heads, the 80#ers and either a 6466 or 6766 turbo is enough for 9's with the right tuning, but those turbos need more converter if street driven.

It really comes down to what you want and your ultimate goals. As has been said numerous times before, 95% of the Turbo Buick owners never utilize what they have and go over board with turbo selection. Use the search feature and read up on the 6262, 6466 and 6766 turbo combos. Both Bison and PTE offer fantastic options for our cars.
Hope some of this helps and again, welcome aboard.

-Patrick-

Thanks a million on this. and i did look at the turbine side and its a precision a\r .63 i have not taken off the covers of either side to measure impellers/turbo wheel but will be at it today..would be satisfied with a car in the 10's who knows maybe low side.. I'm here in West GA.(know of anyone with knowledge of these cars) area and would like to find someone who know these cars.. but this site is terrific because everyone like yourself steps in and help out and that is truly amazing.. its my second GN/have a 85'.. I'm a painter so i just know the basics to these cars.. thanks for the info

also do you know what these square boxes are and what are they used for.. like i said the car last ran in 02' has bfg drag radials in rear.. speed pro stand alone ecm..with wideband O2..will measure some stuff and take more photos of stuff so i can figure out whats here and what i want to upgrade.. appreciate the response.. very helpful

 

[RUQWKNF]

No problemo. With regards to your what is this question, It's hard to tell, but that looks like some type of electronic boost controller, possibly a dual solenoid boost controller. Dig around inside the car and look for a module/boost controller as the Speed Pro did not have any internal boost control features that I remember. Also, if it last ran in 2002, that is more than likely a home made boost controller setup like we used to spec for customers when I was at Precision. Those rubber hoses should be running to the wastegate and there should be a timer located somewhere close to those solenoids. Trace the wiring from those solenoids and you should find the timer / delay relay controller.

As far as a shop that can get you taken care of in GA, I would highly recommend Georgia Automotive Performance in Canon GA. Ask for Josh White, he's a long time friend of mine and knows Turbo Buicks inside and out. I'm sure they can get you squared away with whatever you want to do with it. Tell him Patrick Rubio referred you from this site.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/georgiaautomotiveperformance/about/?ref=page_internal

-Patrick-

 

[black cars boosted]

ok thanks i pulled the valve cover off and see the car has roller rocker setup that has 1.55 stamped on the arms.. like i said i am sponging as much as i can about these cars so the info given is greatly appreciated.. i went through the spring cleaning steps changed fluids except trans as its not ran yet but almost did.. found the ignition module bad so replacing..would be nice to know what cam it has but seriously thinking of ditching the speed pro and going with some 80#' injectors and getting a chip burned or even xfi who knows just don't want to freshen this engine bay up and do this again.. who knows how long the speed pro stuff will last...just want a nice running but fast when i need it to be all murdered out Nasty National.. that hates anything wearing a chevy bow tie!

 

[RUQWKNF]

Depending on the wiring harness setup it has, IE: SpeedPro adapter harness mated to the stock wiring harness, or Dedicated replacement wiring harness, will really help you decide your goals. Circa 2002 tech, tells me it's got an adapter harness to to stock harness setup. See if there is one that connects the stock harness to the SpeedPro in the kick panel area. If so, I would recommend going with one of Eric at TurboTweaks' ecuGN systems. As long as your car has the stock wiring harness on it, the ecuGN would be plug and play. Also, if you go with 80#ers, make sure you get a flowed set. Eric has them as well. And just so you know, FAST no longer services the SpeedPro system if something happens to it.

http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=4000

http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1038

A couple of other thoughts that come to mind.
Having 1.55 roller rockers is a good sign and I would definitely keep them. If the engine makes sewing machine type sounds at hot idle, it could possibly have a hydraulic roller cam. Only 100% way to verify, would be to pull the intake and take a look at the lifters, but that's a lot of un-necessary work if you don't plan on changing the cam. You could get / rent a bore scope tool and probe through the PCV grommet. If you see nothing but the metal valley pan gasket, you won't be able to inspect the lifters, as there's no hole large enough for a bore scope camera probe to fit. But, if it's got ported aluminum heads, you might have Fel-Pro 1200 intake gaskets and an open valley. Allowing you to check out the lifters. If they have dog bones connecting the lifter pairs, it's a roller cam. If not, it's a good guess that it's a stock style hydraulic flat tappet cam. Another tip, if it has hardened aftermarket pushrods, you could spin one of the loose ones around and see if you can see any numbers on them. That's another good sign of a roller cam, as 99% of users simply re-use the stock pushrods if they have to replace a wiped cam. No matter what cam you have, I would highly recommend you pour in a bottle of ZDDPlus zinc phosphorus oil additive as soon as possible. Unless you have maintenance records that indicate it's got it already, always assume it doesn't. Your cam, engine bearings and turbo bearings will thank you for it.

Another thing you can do with a bore scope camera, or even a cell phone camera, would be to unbolt the non used fuel pump block off plate and inspect the timing chain to see what you have. Two bolts and a gasket with some rtv easy. With a bore scope camera you could look at what type of cam thrust button it has, as well as what type of timing chain it's got. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's got a double roller timing chain on it.

And lastly, take some detailed pics and post them on here. We can help you ID what you have and help make better recommendations for your goals. The more high res images the better.

-Patrick-

 

[black cars boosted]

Depending on the wiring harness setup it has, IE: SpeedPro adapter harness mated to the stock wiring harness, or Dedicated replacement wiring harness, will really help you decide your goals. Circa 2002 tech, tells me it's got an adapter harness to to stock harness setup. See if there is one that connects the stock harness to the SpeedPro in the kick panel area. If so, I would recommend going with one of Eric at TurboTweaks' ecuGN systems. As long as your car has the stock wiring harness on it, the ecuGN would be plug and play. Also, if you go with 80#ers, make sure you get a flowed set. Eric has them as well. And just so you know, FAST no longer services the SpeedPro system if something happens to it.

http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=4000

http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1038

A couple of other thoughts that come to mind.
Having 1.55 roller rockers is a good sign and I would definitely keep them. If the engine makes sewing machine type sounds at hot idle, it could possibly have a hydraulic roller cam. Only 100% way to verify, would be to pull the intake and take a look at the lifters, but that's a lot of un-necessary work if you don't plan on changing the cam. You could get / rent a bore scope tool and probe through the PCV grommet. If you see nothing but the metal valley pan gasket, you won't be able to inspect the lifters, as there's no hole large enough for a bore scope camera probe to fit. But, if it's got ported aluminum heads, you might have Fel-Pro 1200 intake gaskets and an open valley. Allowing you to check out the lifters. If they have dog bones connecting the lifter pairs, it's a roller cam. If not, it's a good guess that it's a stock style hydraulic flat tappet cam. Another tip, if it has hardened aftermarket pushrods, you could spin one of the loose ones around and see if you can see any numbers on them. That's another good sign of a roller cam, as 99% of users simply re-use the stock pushrods if they have to replace a wiped cam. No matter what cam you have, I would highly recommend you pour in a bottle of ZDDPlus zinc phosphorus oil additive as soon as possible. Unless you have maintenance records that indicate it's got it already, always assume it doesn't. Your cam, engine bearings and turbo bearings will thank you for it.

Another thing you can do with a bore scope camera, or even a cell phone camera, would be to unbolt the non used fuel pump block off plate and inspect the timing chain to see what you have. Two bolts and a gasket with some rtv easy. With a bore scope camera you could look at what type of cam thrust button it has, as well as what type of timing chain it's got. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's got a double roller timing chain on it.

And lastly, take some detailed pics and post them on here. We can help you ID what you have and help make better recommendations for your goals. The more high res images the better.

-Patrick-

roger that
.. just came back in from putting valve covers back on.. i will send more detailed pics.. i did put zinc additive in oil upon spring cleaning directions..

 

[black cars boosted]

I just took of the oil pump cover and had a look see with my bore camera and you were correct it was a double sprocket timing chain.. i look around as best as i could and saw the front of the crank??? only saw what looks like some sort of gear took pics of what camera saw but not to detailed.. the intake had a floor or valley closed and was not opened so i couldn't get any pictures of that to check the lifter type. the old speed pro box( fast track) has connection for factory ecm and series of cables with 25-30 pin and a center lock bolt.. ( will send pics of that.. a db 9 connector.. one of the series of cables is labeld wideband only.. and the other C Com. then a antennae connector cable

 

[black cars boosted]

I also took photos of the torque converter.. the front mount IC .. and the cables coming from the speed pro box which plugs into the original ecm connectors and these you see in the picture comes out the bottom of the speed pro box and runs under the carpet with a slit allowing to be underneath passenger front seat..guess it was for tuning.. there was a 7 wire wideband O2 sensor..

I appreciate you guys for checking into this and figuring out this setup best as we can. whatever i need to check and give you guys the info i will get on it..i have my 50# injectors on hold right now so i can see whats my next recommended move.. should be painting my 85' GN within the next couple weeks..

 

[black cars boosted]

I don't and will not start dumping parts into this car, it has some pretty decent mods already so we will see how things go..it has an accufab throttle body measuing 70mm or so.. egr delete, a tac and boost gauge in a pillar pod.. and water temp and oil pressure in console pod.. my question is will i need to get a rjc plenum plate sooner or not needed/recommendations... injectors thinking of going with the 80's.. want to do a 93/e85 50-50 mix..( seems easier and less stuff under the hood..i bought a factory ecm because my pump would not energize until i hooked up a factory one.. maybe speed pro box not communicating.. i would get spark but not injector pulse so guess it needs to be checked out..looking into other ecm options.. xfi/erics ecu, etc. want to get a scan master g.. whats your thought on one? really don;t think i need an analog tac.. the .. this car his 30,000 orig. miles so i want it to be neat and clean..I restore cars in my past time and guess i can't help it..lol
You guys know what i'm talking about.. i have some really nice cars in my collection but its something about that all black regal during dusk dawn with its park light on,whistling as it goes by you.. Buick got it right on this one..