What's needed to build a reliable 500-525 hp engine?

M

MG8T7GN

Member
Joined
May 25, 2001
I have a customer that has a stock 87 GN ans would like to have the engine built to make 500-525 hp at the crank. What sort of goodies do I need to get? Taking the motor out is not a problem. I'm just not sure what's needed. Billet caps, crank, forged rods and pistons, cam, injectors, turbo, intercooler, exhaust???? It's been years since I done anything like this.
Mark
 
TurboSkunk15 said:
Lots of money !
I'm sure you'll get some good advice here lots of crazy fast cars.
Click to expand...
That's a good place to start!!!!
He's not asking for crazy hp, but some basic items should be determined first. Is he capable of maintaining and recognizing tuning problems? If not, reliability will present a problem and things like a girdle and all roller would be a better choice. You understand where I'm going w/this?
He will have to first upgrade the fuel system. Hot wire and good pump.
If a forged assembly, like from Mike @fullthrottle or one of the other venders, is affordable, that would be great for the reliability along w/a mild hyd. roller cam assembly. 206/206 or equivalent.
Caps would be a + as well. (keep in mind the limitation of the block is 500-525hp)
You can check w/Bison to spec a turbo or consider the 6262.
A little head and dog house work along w/a 62mm tb. (Can add alchy)
Extended slic.
TT chip and 60's inj.'s unless you're going w/E-85, then at least 80's.
Upgrade trans, and converter.
Again much will depend on his abilities.
 
If that's 500-525 at the flywheel all you need is a good solid stock short block. Good set of aftermarket heads preferably aluminum, intercooler, open or free flowing exhaust and hyd roller cam. The tune will determine longevity. Without detonation a stock short block will last a long time. If he wants to spend $15-20k then do a 9.5:1 engine and get an XFI. The teams and rear will eat up $4-5k if it hasn't already.


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bone stock motor with valve springs,49/44 turbo,dutt neck for stock intercooler.to handle the power,drag radials,eaton posi,28 spline axles,built trans and converter,36/42lb injectors,single nozzle alkycontrol,powerplate,intank pump,5.7 tt chip,scanmaster/ wideband.
 
Thanks for all the replies. My customer has the finances to do it correctly. The car is scheduled to arrive at the shop today. What I know about it is that it is a 23k mile car supposedly all stock. He is not looking to race it, just have a nice, quick street car on street tires, dare I say it on 91-93 octane fuel. What we've discussed so far for additional upgrades/mods are: go through the trans and replace the converter, rebuild the rear. He wants 4 wheel disc brakes, no powermaster, and 16" or 17" wheels, rear control arms and sway bars.

Are the "recipes" from years past still a valid course of action? At what level does the stock ecm need updating to an aftermarket unit?
 
Check out the wheels and tire section, there should be a sticky there for handling upgrades, HRPartsandstuff, one of our venders shows how it's done.
The recipes are dated, they are good for reference, but great strides have been made in knowledge and products in the search for "MORE"!!!! I know we have given you generalities in suggestions, but not knowing the depth of his pockets or the specifics of his vision for the TB, it's a little difficult to specify the hardware.
The ecm has run into the 9's and not knowing his abilities, should be the easiest for him to monitor.
 
I have a $25-30k budget to work with including labor. His vision is a strong running street driven, pump gas car. He has no tuning/diagnosing/repairing skills. I at least talked him out of a 500 rwhp car. I'm not looking for using a stage or TA Perf block. A forged rotating aasembly, billet caps are ok. We have an engine shop where I work, along with a chassis dyno. I'll probably use a TT chip, since I'm happy with it in my GN. Can as cast stock heads meet my goals or will I need to go to aftermarket heads? I looked at PT&E's website for turbo suggestion, but didn't see a GN specific page. I'm planning on going with an updated SLIC and turbo and a 3" exhaust while keeping the stock exhaust manifolds. This car is going to the Dominican Republic in a few years when he retires, so reliability is a major concern since there probably aren't many- if anyone- who could work on the car there. Hopefully I'll see Nick M next week at Kirban's open house and talk about cooling systems. I'd like to get all the engine pieces from one vendor so everything works as a unit. I'll reads through the trans section here for someone to do the trans. The rear I can do myself.
 
Be sure to use a torque plate if you bore out the cylinders and pay close attention to clearance specification on bearings . oiling system will need special attention as well. Alot of information is available to you here. The biggest mistake you can make is not paying attention to the details specific to the buick engine. Good luck
 
V6sleeper said:
If he has that kind of budget 20-30k, I wouldn't pull the heads off a stock 23k mile motor, I would build an entirely new motor and drop it in and put the stock one to the side like I did..:D
Click to expand...
That dollar figure needs to include all the other ugrades.
 
VERMONSTER said:
Be sure to use a torque plate if you bore out the cylinders and pay close attention to clearance specification on bearings . oiling system will need special attention as well. Alot of information is available to you here. The biggest mistake you can make is not paying attention to the details specific to the buick engine. Good luck
Click to expand...
Stock clearances as what is in the shop manual or ????. What about using one of the Ruggles/Kenne-Bell plates that ent onto the oil pump? Like I said before, it's been many years since I've looked into upgrading onwe of these engines....
 
My opinion based on a local guy asking similar questions . . . .
1 - Build the long block for 700 hp.
2 - Set it up for 350 hp untill the owner gets hsed to the car, and what to watch.
3 - Have it tuned by someone who knows these cars to 500.
4 - Hand over the keys and step out.

For heads . . . Refer to post 5
 
$25-30k will go really fast if the car has very little done to it already unless you are working for free and I doubt you are. A 500hp 93 octane only engine is not common around here regardless of what most would like to think. To save $$$ for more important things like an XFI and the trans work needed I would definitely use a stock block. You will need good heads no matter what.


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PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY.
If "I" contacted to a shop to discuss the platform and the goal . . . And they are unable to give me 90% of the answers or provide references of similar builds . . . I would still go back for other work, but walk out on the build in question.

I have started living by the saying . . . "A man got to know his limitations"
Good luck.
 
Hopefully, everyone forgives me for asking so many questions. Is the goal of a reliable 500chp engine on 93 octane possible?
 
Jerryl said:
PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY.
If "I" contacted to a shop to discuss the platform and the goal . . . And they are unable to give me 90% of the answers or provide references of similar builds . . . I would still go back for other work, but walk out on the build in question.

I have started living by the saying . . . "A man got to know his limitations"
Good luck.
Click to expand...
I'm not taking this in any wrong way. I've owned my GN since new. I was aGM master tech up to 2002 when I left the rat race of dealerships. Still am a ASE master tech. Since 2002, I've been involved with Corvettes and now Mustangs. Here is where I work now www.phoenixperformance.net . It's just that I've been away from playing with and modifying Buick engines for so long and haven't really kept up with the latest available goodies. I'm dealing with a customer who himself does not know what he wants except he wants a 500chp engine and the necessary supporting hardware/drivetrain/brakes to accomplish this. He had a ZR1 racecar we built for him and now wants to modify his GN. The physical mechanical part of doing this project is not the issue here, I'm trying to determine from people, like you and anyone else here , that have kept up with the latest goodies needed to accomplish what my customer wants, steers me in the right direction. I've concentrated on the LS engines for the last 13 years.
 
MG8T7GN said:
Is the goal of a reliable 500chp engine on 93 octane possible?
Click to expand...
inmo no,my friend was insistant on having one and even with all the best internals and ported aluminum heads,xfi/good tune,turbo 350,big turbo,front mount intercooler etc,the car would get hurt on 93.your client would save a lot of money and break less if he learned how to use the methanol or just put race gas in the car when he wanted to go fast.inmo octane rules in these cars,i never hurt a stock motor under 500 horsepower,car lasted over 15 years that way.
 
Octane is a problem. Alky is needed for power on 93 unless it's a stroker and decent sized turbo. That's a whole other ball of wax. When you put alky in the equation. Things get complicated. Not hard, but guys need to pay attention - not necessarily needing to know how to tune. If your customer isn't that type of guy, you aren't doing him any favors.
 
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