Wheel Spin Knock

[Grumpy]

I see that you edited this post from its original wording where you advised,either GN HEAD or myself to tune our damn cars. Are you saying that the knock is real and caused by a poor tune? If so,how did you arive at this conclusion? Are you saying that wheelspin,in and of itself isn't the cause of knock? My car doesn't need tuning it runs strong with no knock retard. My ET Street bias ply tires hook extreamly well after I heat them up. If I don't heat them up I can easily overpower them and create wheelspin. When I do this,I don't get any knock. From the earlier posts,I see no evidence that GN Head needs to tune his car,nor does he need help with traction. He stated that when he puts slicks on the car it hooks well with no knock.

ya I did delete that !!! figured you guys don't know how to tune ... just ask the same question over and over .. hey keep beating this to death .. winter is here and Ill try and reply while workin on Melissa's new beater

 

[Grumpy]

It's ok that you don't care about the cause,just as it's ok that he does..I don't see an atempt in your post to offer a theory as to why tirespin would cause the knock sensor to detect knock when the tires break loose. Can I assume that,because of your statement about your knock guage,that you tend to think that the knock is false?

hmmmm reading here ... why can't you fix it ??? you seem to have all the answers

 

[Russ Merritt]

So,are you saying that wheelspin,in and of it self causes knock.

No, wheel spin in and of itself doesn't cause it.

Do I know exactly what it is on this particular car, no. It can be numerous problems or maybe in his case just one problem.

Do I know where I would look first? Yes

Am I going to tell you? No .....

Could I fix the car? Yes

In the burnout box is the only place I myself ever light em up. I got that outta my system years ago. I like it so much better when the car goes when you floor it.

Can you tell us why this happens.

Keep throwin pennies into the wishin well......

I'll give you one thing though, at least you dropped my lame attemp at thread humor "wheel spin junkie" joke...........It was just a joke......

 

[DonnieShort]

This statement you quoted shows that GN HEAD knows how to get the traction that stops the knock. He's not asking for advice on how to get traction,or how to stop wheelspin knock. He wants to find out what causes his knock sensor to detect knock during wheelspin? Are you saying that your knock sensor doesn't record knock during wheelspin?

I get NO knock when the tires break loose, so I don't buy into the ECM can't keep up theory. I have the same ECM as everybody else so mine seems to keep up just fine. What everybody is trying to tell you is he has another problem causing the knock, what it is can be a multitude of different things. You have get under the car and start isolating the problem to fix it, theory's are just fine and some can be a good place to start but in the real world you can through them out the window. Listen to the guys that have some experience with these cars and you'll be surprised what you can learn. I'm not looking down on you or anybody but sometimes people need to stop and listen to what's being said.


Russ,

 

[SloGN]

i really think that it's a problem dealing with the stock ecm and it determines the LV8/load by using the speed sensor.


If you note when using a direct scan in the lower right hand corner of the screen it gives hp/tq figures. well when the car spins the tires the hp/tq will jump up to stupid #'s when the tires break loose that is inpart due to the fact that the rpm/speed the ecm see has a fast sudden change.

this is from my post #6



/QUOTE/ My problem was from the speedo cable getting whiped back and fourth from say 80 mph and when it hooked up it would whip back to 10-15 mph.

the speed sensor is located on the back of the speedo cluster so it see this whipping action too.

well as this happens the stock ecm gets lost in the program so to speak because the load table are configured by the use of the speed sensor input so a rapid change in speed wheather i's from stopping suddenly of having you foor to the floor and the tires spin and then grip the speedo cable whips back for a split second.


well in that split second even tho your foot is still of the floor the ecm thinks that since the speed/load changed and your not in PE mode and switchs into AE mode. when it switchs into AE mode for that split second it changes the timing tables also along with the fueling so now the engine is at full boost and the timing and fueling changes for a split second well that split second just causes your wheel spin knock.


my car only done this on the street and not at the track. it took using direct scan to find out the problem.

i went and got a heavy duty speedo cable and it helped it some.


good luck /QUOTE/

 

[Ttype6]

I get NO knock when the tires break loose, so I don't buy into the ECM can't keep up theory. I have the same ECM as everybody else so mine seems to keep up just fine. What everybody is trying to tell you is he has another problem causing the knock, what it is can be a multitude of different things. You have get under the car and start isolating the problem to fix it, theory's are just fine and some can be a good place to start but in the real world you can through them out the window. Listen to the guys that have some experience with these cars and you'll be surprised what you can learn. I'm not looking down on you or anybody but sometimes people need to stop and listen to what's being said.


Russ,

I don't get knock either,so I tend to believe as you dnly a very few posts ,like yours and SLoGN,offered helpful theories as to why the knock sensor might be triggered during wheelspin.Very interesting,intelligent,helpful,sensable theories and evidence.Thank You. The majority of the other posts didn't make an attempt at answering the question,didn't recognize what was being asked,and pretty much accused us of having some sort of mental flaw for wanting to know what might be the cause of this symptom. It's very clear what the helpful replies are trying to say. I understand them well and appreciate them and found them to be very interesting. It's also very clear what the other replies are trying to say.I have 18 years experience with my car I'm very knowledgable about them.I've not experienced this problem personally,but am curious as to why it happens. I thank you for your intelligent offering,and it's obvious that you understand what's being asked here.

 

[Ttype6]

ya I did delete that !!! figured you guys don't know how to tune ... just ask the same question over and over .. hey keep beating this to death .. winter is here and Ill try and reply while workin on Melissa's new beater

Now your including me in this problem.I've stated several times that my car doesn't do this,it leaves very hard without wheelspin. Can you explain what it is abuout these two statements that leads you to believe my motor is in a poor state of tune?

 

[Super6]

knock

It's ok that you don't care about the cause,just as it's ok that he does..I don't see an atempt in your post to offer a theory as to why tirespin would cause the knock sensor to detect knock when the tires break loose. Can I assume that,because of your statement about your knock guage,that you tend to think that the knock is false?

You tell me if it's false, you seem to know everything else...maybe you can find me another couple mph.......where's your sig?.............Bob

 

[GN HEAD]

Yep, i just ordered me some et streets to eliminate my knock. i could care less what causes it as long as i can get rid of it. Thanks Russ. on a side note my scanmaster never shows knock but the casper's knock gauge will when the tires break. i guess the knock gauge is picking up other sounds...Bob

Shouldn't the scanmaster and the caspers knock sensor show the same results?... That is interesting, mine is a caspers sensor. As far as getting under the car and checking things out, I've done that...owned the car since 1990, done all the work myself, tried many things to eliminate, or narrow down what could be the reason for this problem. In tune....yes, I would say the car is in good tune.....I know how to tune it, been in the game for quite a while. Burnouts are NOT what I'm interested in.... Interested in the cause of knock detection when the tires lightly break loose (spelled, no smoke).

 

[Ttype6]

You tell me if it's false, you seem to know everything else...maybe you can find me another couple mph.......where's your sig?.............Bob

When someone asks a question on this board It's because there looking for an answer. If one of us has an answer or theory I think we should give it. Instead of offering a theory as to the cause of the symtom,you gave an opinion that you thought there was something wrong with GN HEAD for asking the question. It's ok for him to want to know why,just as it is ok for you to not care why. No one has made fun of you for not caring. The reason I asked if you thought the knock was false is because I wanted to know if you thought the knock was false. What is it about my asking so many questions that makes you think I have so many answers? Doesn't the fact that I'm asking the questions lead you to believe I don't have the answers and am looking for some? As far as my finding you a couple of mph,I didn't notice in your sig.what kind of torque converter you have.If you have a lockup converter,and aren't locking it during a run I would advise you to do so. You'll see another 2 mph. If you already do this,good. What I think would be better ,is to improve your 60 ft. times. This would have a more pronounced effect on lowering your et. I'm sure I could help you out in this area. As far as my signature is concerned,I would be interested in finding out how to do that. Is that something you could help me with?

 

[Ttype6]

when the tires lightly break loose (spelled, no smoke).

Well,you're not a wheelspin junkie. You're a wheelspin wanna-be. Does the knock stay as long as the tires are spinning,or does it go away at some time before they gain traction?

 

[Super6]

Gn Head

Knock is determined by frequency, not amplitude.

i guess it has something to do with this. when i crank my car the knock gauge lights up like a x-mas tree. i know the scanmaster works because i will get a few degrees of knock between shift everynow and then...hth..

Ttype6 click on Usercp on the left of your screen and click on signature...that should get you headed in the right direction...if not pm me...

 

[GN HEAD]

Seems to knock till it hooks......happens so fast, it's quicker than it takes the sensor to reset..... I forget what Turbo-link shows, I'll check and see if I still have any files on there or not.

 

[SloGN]

I get NO knock when the tires break loose, so I don't buy into the ECM can't keep up theory. I have the same ECM as everybody else so mine seems to keep up just fine. What everybody is trying to tell you is he has another problem causing the knock, what it is can be a multitude of different things. You have get under the car and start isolating the problem to fix it, theory's are just fine and some can be a good place to start but in the real world you can through them out the window. Listen to the guys that have some experience with these cars and you'll be surprised what you can learn. I'm not looking down on you or anybody but sometimes people need to stop and listen to what's being said.


Russ,

well i'm glad that your ecm is special some cars have that problem and some don't. but most of the cars that have this problem are driven on the street.


i don't care if you don't believe what i'm saying. I guess that since i don't have a fast car like yours that i'm a dumbass.


BTW how do you tune your car ? call a friend with a chip burner and have one sent out my mail.


Also the info i posted is not a theory is in fact true. but your to bull headed to think that it might actually be in fact correct.

 

[Super6]

When someone asks a question on this board It's because there looking for an answer. If one of us has an answer or theory I think we should give it. Instead of offering a theory as to the cause of the symtom,you gave an opinion that you thought there was something wrong with GN HEAD for asking the question. It's ok for him to want to know why,just as it is ok for you to not care why. No one has made fun of you for not caring. The reason I asked if you thought the knock was false is because I wanted to know if you thought the knock was false. What is it about my asking so many questions that makes you think I have so many answers? Doesn't the fact that I'm asking the questions lead you to believe I don't have the answers and am looking for some? As far as my finding you a couple of mph,I didn't notice in your sig.what kind of torque converter you have.If you have a lockup converter,and aren't locking it during a run I would advise you to do so. You'll see another 2 mph. If you already do this,good. What I think would be better ,is to improve your 60 ft. times. This would have a more pronounced effect on lowering your et. I'm sure I could help you out in this area. As far as my signature is concerned,I would be interested in finding out how to do that. Is that something you could help me with?

Ttype6 You strike me the wrong way and as a few others too here but i will give you some advise. i already know how the board works as i have been a member longer than you have and greatly apppeciate it but you don't have to come back with something everytime a comment is made that you don't like. Somethings are better left unsaid because everyone has their own opinion whether they care or not as long as we share infomation...hth somebody and i am exhausted .........Bob

 

[Lee_Burough]

With this.....the white flag is out.....the thread is no longer getting positive input on what I had originally posted and I want no harsh feelings, I've had enough... Let's end it here. Ttype6 and all others that had input that dealt with the root cause, Thank You....you are what keeps the board productive and useful.

GN HEAD, I'm granting your wish and closing the thread.

The evolution of this thread reminds me of conflict between pragmatists and idealists throughout recorded history.

The pragmatist says, "If it works, its good." The pragmatist is done when he finds his desired outcome (in this case its getting tires enough to hook up). After he discovers how to hook up, nothing else matters to him.

The idealist isn't happy until every possibility has been hashed out, and then he will make a decision, based on parameters wholly unimportant to the pragmatist.

Or, maybe I'm all wet and didn't understand anything

I encourage the use of smiley's....They will avert hostility and hurt feelings. Their use in some posts to this thread could have avoided some hard feelings....Please, use them!

Sometimes we need to step away from the computer and digest what we read before we respond. An unemotional response isn't as flamboyant, but certainly will enable an atmosphere where we all just get along.

If you really can't stand an individual, I urge you to use the Ignore List. I do.