Which Alky Kit To Buy

[wickedtt]

well sounds like i might check out the new smc kit.anyone use it yet?

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by SMC
I made no accusation.....it's true that many of the parts from Razor's kit came from the SMC kit, or am I wrong? So for me to be accused of copying Razor's kit from a simple tank change is ludicrous.

Seems to me, you came late to the progressive controller party. I remember your non-progressive $400 kit where your pump was failing at breakneck speed. Just what you need when you run alky........ a junk pump. I hope you found a better pump. Hell, I'm still running Stevemon's diy alky with the sureflo pump after almost 5 years and over 100,000 miles with no failures.

 

[SMC]

Sorry, but I've had a progressive controller since June of '03....same as Razor. Not to mention over 1,000 standard controllers that work fine for 90% of turbo Buicks.......and I have many 4-5 year old pumps out there running fine. As long as you don't run water & do use the Klotz lube, the pumps are fine. If you make it to the Nats you can check out the STAINLESS pump we are developing now..........then you can run freakin battery acid if you want.....

 

[salvageV6]

And finally, you don't even need progressive controllers to run alky. successfully.

Well not finally really.......

Lots of ways to get more alky. at high boost into your motor.

Lighten up.

A PWM controller with voltage control is practically an off the shelf item for a 10A DC motor.

Assuming you want one that is.

 

[AltaGN]

I have two SMC units from the original design/group purchases...pumps are still working.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by SMC
Yea, it might be easier to use the Shurflo pump....we just don't care for the wild pressure pulsations. Why do you think there is no pressure guage on that kit? Put one on your Shurflo and try to read it as the needle bounces 50 psi.........after you strip the fittings trying to tighten them into the plastic pumphead.

Steve.. wrong again.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142526

HTH

 

[SMC]

Geez.........The liquid filled guage dampens the pressure pulsations of the Shurflo pump....that's what liquid filled guages are for!!!

Should I upload a video of a test with a STANDARD pressure guage????? That'd be an eye-opener....

Try it with a 0-100 psi standard guage once.......and maybe it was the way the controller was set, but it sure looked like it was instant on, not progressive.......
Who knows...I don't care to argue.
But if someone slams my kit I have to respond.

 

[SMC]

Originally posted by salvageV6

A PWM controller with voltage control is practically an off the shelf item for a 10A DC motor.

Assuming you want one that is. [/B]

Yes, but a microprocessor based unit with built in 3 bar MAP and custom software is definitely not "off the shelf" !

 

[d0n_3d]

Both Razor's and SMC's kits are very effective and get the job done. I have personally been using Steve's kit since 02' and haven't regretted one bit of the system. Both make nice kits guys. No reason to bash another person. Buick guys crack me up sometimes...we are one of the smallest communities out there but yet we always have to fight with each other. If you guys only knew what some of the other guys think of us sometimes

 

[V6DVette]

Originally posted by d0n_3d
Both Razor's and SMC's kits are very effective and get the job done. I have personally been using Steve's kit since 02' and haven't regretted one bit of the system. Both make nice kits guys. No reason to bash another person. Buick guys crack me up sometimes...we are one of the smallest communities out there but yet we always have to fight with each other. If you guys only knew what some of the other guys think of us sometimes

I agree...No one wins in a pissin contest... Both are great kits. Much better then having one choice.
If I built one that I sold I'm sure it would be better then both of yours!

 

[SMC]

Originally posted by Razor
Steve.. wrong again.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142526

HTH

Sorry Razor.....got ya on this one....Here's a link to a video of a Shurflo pump with #15 nozzle and a NORMAL pressure guage attached:

http://www.smcenterprises.com/links.htm

.....you CANT EVEN READ IT because of the 50-60 psi pressure swings. Hell, you can even HEAR it pulsate. It's just the nature of the beast of a 3 piston diaphragm pump. It might not be an issue..but I'd be concerned about even cylinder misting at high RPM with the pressure pulsations. Probably not an issue....but the Shurflo definitely pulsates like a MF.

 

[Pronto]

I don't see any link for video at the site

 

[SMC]

Originally posted by Pronto
I don't see any link for video at the site

http://www.smcenterprises.com/links.htm

CLICK ABOVE- will take you right to it.

 

[4sfed4]

Originally posted by SMC
Sorry Razor.....got ya on this one....Here's a link to a video of a Shurflo pump with #15 nozzle and a NORMAL pressure guage attached:

http://www.smcenterprises.com/links.htm

.....you CANT EVEN READ IT because of the 50-60 psi pressure swings. Hell, you can even HEAR it pulsate. It's just the nature of the beast of a 3 piston diaphragm pump. It might not be an issue..but I'd be concerned about even cylinder misting at high RPM with the pressure pulsations. Probably not an issue....but the Shurflo definitely pulsates like a MF.

My Shurflow doesnt sound anything like that. Im not sure why, but Ive never heard sounds like that!

Maybe running the pump at a higher pressure changes things?

 

[salvageV6]

Nothing a $5 Power resistor can't cure.

Really.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by SMC

But if someone slams my kit I have to respond.

I didnt slam your kit, you simply slammed the pump I use with bad info.

To answer the pump deal, the factory pressure preset on the pump is 60 PSI. If you place a small orfice on the pump with the factory preset pressure.. then what happens is when 12 volts is applied to the pump, it hits the 60 PSI thrshold and then cycles on and off. This cycling on/off is what your responding to. Unlike an EFI pump that hit 70-90 PSI tops, the Shurflo can generate in excess of 200 PSI. The size of the Shurflo dwarfs the EFI style pump used in the SMC kit. Easy way to stop the cycling, reduce voltage to the pump so it doesnt hit the pressure switch. Duhhh.

I dont obviously run the pumps at 60 PSI as demonstrated by the video.

Look pressure is a relative thing, case in point is look at the DIY kits that work with the Shurflo pump, the run an NOS style nozzle and a pump that pulses at 60 PSI. And you'll see tons of guys having results that theyre happy with.

The dyno pull you saw.. yes you can see its progressive.. look how the needle jumps to 150 then climbs. Its a Dyno.. how fast do you think it takes for boost to come up on a dyno on a motor thats already spooled up. Point of the video was shoot down your 50 PSI statement deal.

I tried not getting into a pissing match, but you decided to stir the pot. It would take an SMC pump and 6 nozzles to approach what I do with 2. Let alone ZERO pump failures have occured in over 450 PUMPS sold. Can you say ZERO I rather have a potentially pulsing pump that doesnt fail.

Guess why you put a pressure guage, to let people know when theyre pumps failed

Time to add a filter pre nozzle and upgrade your kit. You can copy that. It will make your kits better.

And on the controller... since you insisted.. microprocessor based.. hehehe.. why would you have a MAX setting on the box. Thats like putting the carriage before the horse. So you set up max for when the car runs 25 PSI... all of a sudden it goes to 30 becuase of a wastegate failure.. what will your controller do... at 26 PSI.. nothing.. Ohh you set the max to 30.. then why have a max.

I hope you better success with it than the first progressive you sold that had controllers sent back for refunds.. Dont ask how I know. I had customers buy my product and not return. Guess thats why you didnt get into the progressive controller market until now.

Zero of my kits have been returned with a failure. I hope all vendors strive to keep numbers like these.

Look you have your way of doing your deal, I have mine. You have your customer base thats very happy with the product. Thats great.. I wish them the very best. Good luck to you and your customers. We all have decisions to make, always put the customer interest first before a profit.

Steve, if you move the pump away from the tank a little and away from the downpipe keeping it lower than the tank, it may make for a better kit. Also redo the cap and add one of your breathers. That will make it better and not let debris vent into the tank. Your controller has very nice packaging..I may not initially agree with the way it works.. but not having seen one first hand.. I really cant comment other than whats percieved.

Only time will tell whether it turns out to be what you expected it to be. Wish you the best.

If you want to get into the electronic aspects of the controllers.. i'm game. This is my turf. After all the name of my business is Complete Electronics..

 

[SMC]

Geez.....

1: I'm smart enough to bypass the damn pressure switch on the pump.....it's not cycling, it's pulsating for God's sakes! Do another video of your setup with a non liquid filled pressure guage....it'll pulsate like a MF.

2: Higher pressure = higher level of pulsation.

3: Like I said before....the pulsation may not be an issue......I just wanted to show that ANY diaphraghm pump tends to do it. And showing video of a test with a liquid filled guage (filters the pressure pulses) was BS. Redo the test.

4: My guys don't need anything like that flow rate.....it sounds like you're replacing most of the gasl with alky? (That's fine but not typical of most users)

5: You are correct in that the SMC pressure guage is there for both testing and troubleshooting. It also has a built in pressure switch used to turn on the "spray on" lite. This set point is adjustable. Who did I hear say that your lite was coming on even though the line was not primed? Hmmmmm...guess I'd rather have the nice guage and pressure switch.

6: Better check the flowcharts....an M15 nozzle at even double the pressure doesn't double the output....and I've got plenty of kits on 700-900 hp cars with no complaints.

7:Why have a MAX setting on my controller? Hell, why have a START setting?? (labeled in boost numbers) Gee, maybe so it's super easy to dial it in????? The same unit can work on a 5 psi or a 30 psi ride. Why have one compact digital unit when I could use what....3 !!! boxes like you do. Time for you to upgrade now.

Listen....I'm done here. Everyone- Razor has a great kit. Go buy it.
Hell, Buy 2.

 

[Razor]

Enough is enough.

Thread closed.