which is cheaper to build: SBC or 3.8 turbo

[turbosam6]

Hey everybody, lets listen to the one post wonder!

Dude, you made yourself sound very ignorant there. Lets see, 2.4 horse per liter on 231c.i. is about 550 horse, right? Theres a lot of guys making that at the wheels and living just fine, its all in the tune. Hell, theres a lot of guys making in excess of 600 at the wheels and getting pretty good longevity out of them. Since you clearly are an engine builder , you should know better.........

 

[UNGN]

Re: Please!

Originally posted by getalife
You will not get a GN into the 11's for the cost o a $450 nitrous kit.

I ran 12.20's with the stock turbo, injectors, intercooler, trans, rearend, 100% stock motor (with 90K miles) on drag radials.

I'm not positive, but think adding a 50 or 100 shot wet system would get my car into the 11's.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Nice post get a life!

Yes the ls1s can run amazing times with nitrous. As you mentioned a $450 nitrous kit on an ls1 can put the hurts to a lot of turbo buicks. Its nice that you mention the $450 for the ls1 but you simply left out the price difference of an ls1 car vs an lc2 car. Go buy your ls1 for $20k and put a nitrous kit on it, then I'll spend the same on an lc2 car and spank your ls1. It doesn't make sense to single out cost as the only factor.

Like I said, in certain horsepower ranges the lc2 wins hands down. Once you get to some serious hp the sbc just can't be beat.

 

[Turbo-Archie]

Originally posted by BLACK6PACK
Like I said, in certain horsepower ranges the lc2 wins hands down. Once you get to some serious hp the sbc just can't be beat.

There it is, the simple answer!!

 

[Race Jace]

If you compare building two motors with the same HP/CU I think the buick would actually be cheaper. everyone thinks that building a buick is so expensive but it depends on how you look at it.

 

[getalife]

Please II

Gentlemen, I did not want my reply to come across disrespectfully.
BLAC6PACK First read the post. I never mentioned an LS-1 car. I said LT-1. Big difference. Now I don't know where each of you is in the world, but in WNC you can pick up a 93-96 Z-28 in reasonable shape for about $3500 up. That might buy you a POS GN or T-Type. So that ruins your car price equasion.
SAM, for your info I am using a friends laptop. This is not my first post. I answered while he was looking at this thread under his name. I have been a member of this board for years. I have not seen any 550RWHP Buicks with completely stock internals living long, much less 600. Not saying their not out there, but I havent seen them.
UNGN, 12.20s with nothing done ? Better call Guiness, cause your car was pissed on by the Pope. Every Buick I ever saw run that good had plenty more $ than a nitrous kit would cost.
Like I said I was not trying to be disrespectful, but if you guys went to the track as much as I do and looked at other cars you would see what I mean. I know of a 96 Camaro with nitrous and a Flowmaster, that runs 7.40's in the 1/8th. $ 550 worth of mods. I have never seen a Buick do that.

 

[UNGN]

Re: Please II

Originally posted by getalife
UNGN, 12.20s with nothing done ? Better call Guiness, cause your car was pissed on by the Pope. Every Buick I ever saw run that good had plenty more $ than a nitrous kit would cost.
Like I said I was not trying to be disrespectful, but if you guys went to the track as much as I do and looked at other cars you would see what I mean. I know of a 96 Camaro with nitrous and a Flowmaster, that runs 7.40's in the 1/8th. $ 550 worth of mods. I have never seen a Buick do that.

The "I Know this guy who runs X with only X" doesn't mean ****.

Get back to us when YOU run 7.40's with "$550 worth of mods"

Check my timeslip page. I listed all the performance "mods" I have done to my car.

To run 12.20's@110.5, they were:

a $90 replacement Fuel pump (not really a mod the stock one was dead),
a $20 Chip,
a $200 Downpipe (the stock one unbolted at the gutted cat would have worked, too),
a $30 K&N cone filter,
a $60 Adjustable FP regutator (a $5 "237" would have worked, too)

The rest of the motor mods were "free mods" with the long block 100% 90K mile stock. The Rest of the driveline was 100% stock, too including all 4 wheels. Zero weight reduction either (I even had a spare/Jack and drove 2.5 hours each way to run the 12.20's)

The suspension mods were Drag radials, right side airbag and ATR sway bar (the stock one was broke)

Do you go to the track to Look at cars? Maybe that explains why you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Buick From Hell]

Just to back up UNGN a bit---Mike whassisname (he now of the other board) had his TTA in the 11's with basically the same mods!

(yeah, yeah, "I know a guy"...) <grin>

 

[slow87]

have seen stock 2 bolt, cast piston, 350's hold up to constant abuse with a 200 shot of nitrous

Thats about the only point I'l agree with

Yes the ls1s can run amazing times with nitrous. As you mentioned a $450 nitrous kit

Nitrous isn't that cheap
After the ign. box, new plugs, window switch, fuel pump etc. that $450 n20 kit is more like 600-700. My kit(tnt-f2) was 600(of course I'm cheap and got it used for 250), so then add in the 400-600 for the proper supporting mods. That's a around a grand for a proper setup if bought new. (carb kits are only like 400)
You can be cheap like my buddy, and just slap a kit on and run .............but how long will it last He got lucky and it never blew Did manage to run 12.7@108 for under 4,500 including the price of the car, but he's a lucky sob imo.

Stock I was 260hp/330hp about the same as a turbo buick, but I can't just crank up the boost, and go faster....I have to buy it seperate. Buick's have the major advantage of having the power adder from the factory AND that's why there cheaper to build for speed. You don't need fancy heads or a big cam just boost the crap out of, and make up for the crappy V/E

SBC , I just dropped $4,000 in my buick on short block and turbo. That smame amount could build 2 sbc, debending on what you were doing of course.

Cost me 4,600 to build a complete all forged 383, from injectors to oil pan. 430rwhp, and 510rwtq. I had this built with full intent of running a 2 stage 250-350 shot, that probly cost as much as your heads. For comparison sake I'm interested in what your car put down(or atleast should)

Disclaimer, I refuse to take responsibility for the above mention words as it is 5am and I have no idea wtf I'm talking about
so flame on

 

[n20junkie]

another view point is turbo sbc vs turbo buick, while the buick has the advantage stock or lightly modded, the chevy would win the race to the 9's, figure in the 9's or high 8's fuel injection is usualkly changed to aftermarket, throttle bodies, intake, turbo, headers, heads, so basically all you keep is the short block in a race setup, and even then you go girdled or stage, if you think about it, the only differences between a buick race build and a chevy race build is the block, cause you change everything else, and in that case the chevy started winning causes you paid for all that fance sefi stuff you took off for felpro or dfi, chevy guy didn't. this is the parts i bought for my chevy, its going to be a twin turbo engine, see if you can get these prices on a buick:
heads -- pro action aluminumcfm in, 255 cfm ext NEW 1,200
cam - doug herbert roller cam, titanium retainers springs 300
roller lifters - NEW 100
fabricated aluminum oil pan - 250
4340 rods h beam - NEW 200
4340 eagle crank - NEW 250
bowtie intake NIB - 250
block plus machining - 1000

and thats just some of it, you can off the top double those prices for a buick, and its all race stuff, but you have a huge customer base buying the stuff,
Grant

 

[ledzeppac]

But from scratch I think the sbc would be cheaper.

I wish it was th other way around

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Gentlemen, I did not want my reply to come across disrespectfully.

But, in your first post, you tell everybody they are on crack or crack laced with meth. I'd say that is quite disrespectful, especially when showing up with one post. How are we supposed to know you're not a troll when you log on with a new name.

I have a 97 SS/z28 sitting in my driveway with several minor mods and nitrous. Its not running 11s, and a safe kit is going to be much more than $450.

My brothers 87 t-type with a 35000 mile stock longblock is running 12.3 in the 1/4 on pump gas with a little te60 on it. It takes a pretty stout sbc to run 12.3 in the 1/4.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

If you want to throw out "I know this guy who has...." there is a guy down here that has been running a stock pistoned/crank/rods 109 block in the 10.0 at 130 mph area for 4 years. I'd say that's pretty reliable.

 

[Marc87GN]

Originally posted by BLACK6PACK
If you want to throw out "I know this guy who has...." there is a guy down here that has been running a stock pistoned/crank/rods 109 block in the 10.0 at 130 mph area for 4 years. I'd say that's pretty reliable.

I'd say he has been pretty freakin lucky and that is not the norm. That setup probably has tons of hours of tuning because one ping will probably scatter the engine. I have been there and the only reason my engine lived because the DFI was tuned by Job Spetter Jr. of Turbo People several times.

Just because you can do something cheaper doesn't make it smart or reliable, which ends up costing more in the longrun.

Unless you have 1 of each and built both to run several different 1/4 mile times, you are guessing at best. Everyone tries to say I only spent this or only spent that and exclude all of the money that it cost to maintain it, shipping charges and labor. Nothing is ever as cheap as people say. 99.9% of the time when you ask someone that has a very fast vehicle how much it cost to build, they leave out, tuning cost, dyno costs, time and additional small parts that add up quickly.

 

[getalife]

I completely understand how you might think I was a troll. No problem. Gentlemen nitrous was used for years without WOT switches, MSD's, and all the other trinkets that you guys say make a safe kit. I think what makes a kit most safe is the user. Also "I" have used a 225 HP kit on a 5.0 Mustang without any ignition mods, or fuel pump. That car went many 7.0's in the 1/8th. I did change the plugs to a set of Autolites that were 1 heat range colder. $9.00 mod.
Black6pack: Unless you have only a small shot on your car, then you have no excuses. Yes I am using a friends car as an example, but I too have owned a Z. A 93 auto(the slowest of all). With a Flowmaster muffler, K&N, and a 175 shot it went 12.18 at Bristol. How much does a te60 cost you. I am a dealer for Precision Turbo and I get a deal on turbos. I can buy a Compucar kit for about $200 less.
n20junkie has done his homework. The crack laced with meth was for laughs. I don't understand it kills em around here. Guys I'm not talking out of my butt. I have owned many cars, and modified all of them. The thing is I'm talking from my experience, not yours. I clearly stated that in my 1st post.

 

[Little6pack]

BOTH!

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Well, my cousin's uncle's brother's wife's father has a yugo that....

The SS only has a 75 shot. It went 13.4 stock, and with the 75 shot we can't get it to hook even with bfgdrs, but it did go from 101mph to 110 with just the 75 shot, so I know the lt1s can move. This thing is a heavy convertible with subframe connectors for added weight.

No problems get a life. We get trolls on here that like to get people fired up, and I usually stay out of it. The sbc is hard to beat, but I think the lc2 doesn't get the credit it deserves sometimes.

The guy that runs 10.ohs for the last 4 years does know what he's doing, and has other guys behind the scenes that help him out. Your average 30psi boost guage is kinda worthless to him though!

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by getalife
Yes I am using a friends car as an example, but I too have owned a Z. A 93 auto(the slowest of all). With a Flowmaster muffler, K&N, and a 175 shot it went 12.18 at Bristol. How much does a te60 cost you. I am a dealer for Precision Turbo and I get a deal on turbos. I can buy a Compucar kit for about $200 less.

I think we've established you don't need a TE60 Turbo to run 12.18 in the 1/4, even at Bristol.

A TE 60 would be good for 11.30's/40's with a 100% stock long block + injectors.

So your "$200 less" would also be .8 seconds slower.

You're also in the ET range where the Z's rear end is nearing the self destruct zone.

The Title of this is which is cheaper to build. From scratch, sure a small block Chevy is cheaper to build. Buying a car and modding it to run 11's (more than once), no way is an LT1 cheaper than a Buick.

 

[Marc87GN]

Since this is so vague, I'm sure there will be instances when the GN is cheaper to build and others when the SBC is cheaper to build. I guess it depends on it's intended use and the type of fuel used.

Most guys I have seen, based on my limited experience here, have GNs that run 11s with little invested, but on race gas & slicks. To have a car that runs 11s on street tires, pump gas, any place any time will cost more money.

I have seen several LS1s with 100 shots run high 11s/low 12s @ 115+ mph on D/Rs using 93 octane in the heat of summer. If their rears were stronger and they could run slicks, I'm sure they would hit mid 11s quite easily with less than 1K invested.

I can't seem to escape these topics. I heard this all on the Mustang boards for several years with Z28s vs GTs. I spent more money on my GT, but it was worth it when I slaughtered all of those LS1s on the street and at the track.

 

[turbolou]

Reply

Allow me to jump in here!Some of you may be familiar with the TT
SBC project that I put togather several years ago.I applied the same technlogy that I used on my TT stage motor back in the mid 90's I used a early 70's four bolt 350 block & production steel crank, By comparison The SBC was a bit more cheaper & less hassel to build once completed.The results weighed in favour of the V/8 it produced 950 h.p. @ only 20# boost with a lot less strain & more longevity than the V/6. I pulled it down after about 70 hard passes for inspection & everything looked cherry. That was five years ago & it still is running just as strong today as it did then.It's not really a fair comparison although fun to talk about. The Buick engine packs alot of punch for it's size & great for running a class where you are limited by size. But to do so you have to lean on them pretty hard & thats where the V/8 has the advantage & in the long run cheaper to maintain. As the Buick stuff becomes more scarce the V/8 is a good option to consider.