Who welds cracks in factory Headers?

[VadersV6]

409 can only be hardened through cold working. But it can be softened by annealing.
Like I said earlier, given enough time, they will crack no matter what. It can only take so many heat cycles/expansion contraction, etc. Plus opening your hood when everything is so hot and blasting the steel with a rush of cold air time and time again over years and years, could anneal it.

 

[Lee Thompson]

headers

How about running down the road with the exhaust @ 900-1000 degrees and running through a puddle of water. I'm sure the headers will get some water or @ least mist on them. Weld a gusset in the drivers side, about as good as you can do.

 

[turbofish38]

I'll add some $.02. Every single turbocharged Riviera has cracked exhaust manifolds. In 1982 Buick started using the tubular SS style exhaust manifolds on the turbo Riv 2 years before the Regal and both sides are notorious for cracking, and when they do it is not uncommon for them to either break the primary tubes completely off or crack the bigger secondary tube completly in half. The only thing the Riv manifolds have in common with the left side Regal manifolds is they aren't supported in any form either. I'm agreeing with Dave, weld some supports in and the cracks should be eliminated in reappearing.

 

[rodman99999]

A good marching song!!! LMAO hahahahah. I think the only thing w/o molecules is a proton. hah.

I almost fell off my chair when I read the, "metals have no molecules" line. Then: There was this one. Give the world a break guys. A proton is part of an atom, and they all contain protons, neutrons and electrons(except hydrogen). ALL matter(solids,liquids, gases) is made of atoms. Anything other than the base elements(oxygen, lead, iron, hydrogen, what appears on the "periodic table) is made up of molecules(and yes- there are simple mixtures). BUT: Any time two dissimilar atoms bond, you have a molecule(in most peoples' books). It's a matter of semantics. Some don't consider a bonding of two atoms a, "molecule" unless they are sharing electrons. Here are a couple of websites for additional insight: http://www.imagesco.com/articles/nitinol/03.html / http://www.matsceng.ohio-state.edu/mse205/lectures/chapter3/chap3.pdf Note the interchanging of the terms, "molecular structure and crystalline structure" in the first one. Oh- my headers were welded a few years back(driver's side/without a brace/mig w/shielding gas) and have yet to re-crack.

 

[scot w.]

Welding the headers

I'm a metal fabricator and a welder for over 12yrs now. I welded mine and also put a small peice of flat stock in between the two pipes where the crack was. it worked fine and it still has not cracked 2yrs later. I also done this without having it mounted to another head.. Just take the header to a welder or a fabricator in your area. and if there is none try your local welding supply store they have welders that do service on there machines and they would more than likely weld it up for you.. If your close to me, i'm in Seymour,TN 37865 you pay the shipping and i'll do it for FREE!!!! Scot w.

 

[Evaddave 87gn]

>>>>The steel had been annealed from improper welding. Ive had quite a bit of metallurgic experience through my job, so I can say that the reason this is happening, is because while welding, the steel is being taken to a temperature at, or higher than it was when it was originally formed at the mill. Then they are likely quenching the metal (dumping it in water or oil) while its at this temperature, and this permanently locks the molecules into a position that gives the steel these soft characteristics. Say that in order to harden a steel, you take it to 1750 degrees, let it soak, and then immediately quench it. The steel is now glass hard, but very brittle. (just using these terms to make it understandable) The harder it is, the more abrasion resistant it tends to be as well<<<<<

Not sure if your post was a response to mine however:

I did not say that "metals don't have molecules I said there is no such steel molecule." The writer of this thread, is most likey, just a little confused about the terminology of chemistry. I was just stating that steel is an alloy, which are metals that have not changed the chemical composistion of the origanal metals.
By the basic definition of alloy, they cannot and do not have molecules.
Just clarifying my statement.
DAve

 

[GNsnake]

welding headers

It's perfectly fine to weld or reweld cracked headers. You need some one who knows welding, not a junk yard welder with a buzz box. The headers are a 400 series s/s steel, not carbon steel. 400 series s/s steels look like carbon steel especially 409 and 410. Mig welding them is fine but Tig welding them with a 309 s/s steel wire works really well with 400 series s/s or you can use 312 s/s steel wire as it is much less likely to crack in the long run. I would use the 312 s/s wire and drill small holes at the end of the cracks before welding them,this will help. Backpurging the header is always a good idea if you have the means to do so. S/S steel is a soft metal anyway not hard as most may think. Ask any good machinist they'll tell you the same thing. Save your money, don't buy a set of headers. Get yours repaired.

Chris

 

[phillyturbosix]

Try this one.. Mine was crack... welded.. cracked again in a year.. So my mech who owns a 10 sec street GN and a twin turbo small block gremlin went with this bridge.. we'll see how it holds up with the jet hot but seems like a good idea to me!

 

[rodman99999]

>>>>The steel had been annealed from improper welding. Ive had quite a bit of metallurgic experience through my job, so I can say that the reason this is happening, is because while welding, the steel is being taken to a temperature at, or higher than it was when it was originally formed at the mill. Then they are likely quenching the metal (dumping it in water or oil) while its at this temperature, and this permanently locks the molecules into a position that gives the steel these soft characteristics. Say that in order to harden a steel, you take it to 1750 degrees, let it soak, and then immediately quench it. The steel is now glass hard, but very brittle. (just using these terms to make it understandable) The harder it is, the more abrasion resistant it tends to be as well<<<<<

Not sure if your post was a response to mine however:

I did not say that "metals don't have molecules I said there is no such steel molecule." The writer of this thread, is most likey, just a little confused about the terminology of chemistry. I was just stating that steel is an alloy, which are metals that have not changed the chemical composistion of the origanal metals.
By the basic definition of alloy, they cannot and do not have molecules.
Just clarifying my statement.
DAve

As I stated in my post: It's a matter of semantics. Let's play a little semantic gymnastics. My headers are rusted, which is an oxidation process that produces hematite(or ferric oxide). This COMPOUND(Fe3O2) contains iron and oxygen that have formed an ionic bond. Those molecules that consist of charged ions with opposite charges are called IONIC. These ionic compounds are generally solids with high melting points and conduct electrical current. Ionic compounds are generally formed from metal and non-metal elements.The IONIC BOND results as a balance between the force of attraction between opposite plus and minus charges of the ions and the force of repulsion between similar negative charges in the electron clouds. In crystalline compounds(oxidized metals) this net balance of forces is called the LATTICE ENERGY. Lattice energy is the energy released in the formation of an ionic compound.

DEFINITION: The formation of an IONIC BOND is the result of the transfer of one or more electrons from a metal onto a non-metal.
Metals, with only a few electrons in the outer energy level, tend to lose electrons most readily. The energy required to remove an electron from a neutral atom is called the IONIZATION POTENTIAL.

Energy + Metal Atom ---> Metal (+) ion + e-

Non-metals, which lack only one or two electrons in the outer energy level have little tendency to lose electrons - the ionization potential would be very high. Instead non-metals have a tendency to gain electrons. The ELECTRON AFFINITY is the energy given off by an atom when it gains electrons.

Non-metal Atom + e- --- Non-metal (-) ion + energy

The energy required to produce positive ions (ionization potential) is roughly balanced by the energy given off to produce negative ions (electron affinity). The energy released by the net force of attraction by the ions provides the overall stabilizing energy of the compound. Since the result is a stable compound(not a mixture, or alloy), the smallest part of a COMPOUND is a "MOLECULE", and my headers are rusty: the alloy that comprises my headers(and doors) can and does contain molecules. Wasn't that fun?