Try 240K. Only 160K high. But hey, close enough for union work.
Why to buy American DP
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Try 240K. Only 160K high. But hey, close enough for union work.
I love you to.:wink:
You all seem to labor under the delusion that "labor" is involved in the product planning division.
Unions are big corporations, just like anything else. BFD. They started out great and have benefitted many. Anymore I wonder what good they're doing us? When union labor takes pay cuts and those are directly mirrored in mgt cuts in staff and wage freezes, what does the UAW(unions) lose? Do THEY have to cut jobs and wages? What about THEIR bene's? But still, union laborers can't be THAT overpaid now can they? If you feel so, then maybe you ought to check out what Honda and Toyota are paying their US workers. Little hint here, in 2010 they'll be paying More!
The fact of the matter is that proper institution of protective measures should have been put in place decades ago in order to insure that the legacy costs of US mfg's, not just UAW, were covered against foreign competitors whom have made no such promises to their people. That's after all the real killer of US mfg's competiveness, the promise made to a man for giving his life to the corporate machine. If you can't get past the idea that before 401K's there were organization's(union's) who made sure their people were cared for in retirement you just won't ever get the argument at hand with many of these issues.
The quality of US products is obviously better, and it's also on the upswing. If you watch the trends in consumer products you'll notice that ever since the acceptance of foreign product quality in our market, it's been on the slide. By that measure, everything WE make is inherently better as day after day our productivity and quality are growing. My wife is currently on mandatory overtime as global markets realize the continuous improvement of high quality US made appliances over the crap you can save a buck on. She is Not union, and better off for it.
88 CuttyClassic
The Enviromental Hitman
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2001
- Messages
- 2,668
one of my all-time favorite cartoons
YouTube - Looney Tunes - Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips
YouTube - Looney Tunes - Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips
He got tired of arguing with a wall?
The UAW is to blame for the excessive pensions that GM is forced to pay. You can realize it or not. All of the Jap car manufacturers combined dont even come close to the total of retired workers GM has with ridiculous pensions. They never expected people to live past 65 i guess when they imposed these pensions. Now GM is fu cked. You are right about tariffs. We should do the same thing. Id suggest a $3000 minimum and 10% for anything over $30k if the % of parts assembled didnt hit a certain %. Watch the cry baby Americans cry like babies if that tax was imposed on their import. Shame on us for not doing what they do to us. That tax would really level the playing field on the under $30k car where the Japs typically kick our a$$
BMF_Racing
ONE B.M.F.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2006
- Messages
- 367
I hate to sound like I'm being un-american, but speaking from my experiences with these "no quality" Jap cars, I have had some prime examples that prove them to have some quality. The 4 below cars (beaters) I have owed and purchased from the original owners & have verification the engines where original.
1982 Honda Civic 488,000 miles when sold
1983 Honda Civic 345,000 miles when I killed the car (it still ran)
1991 Honda CRX 395,000 miles when sold
1991 Toyota Corolla 318,000 miles when sold
All these car still ran after many miles of my abuse of beating the **** out of them. The only thing I had to fix on these cars was clutches (also due to my beating on them).
Basically I guess if these Jap cars have "no quality", then I guess I had the only 4 exceptions.
Free Riders
It's easy to blame the woes of the economy of the USA on the Unions. I'm a Canadian and I often hear the same people blaming organized labour for all of our woes. Blaming a Union is no different than blaming all of you non-union executives for your banking problems isn't it? You want to paint all of the Unions and all of the Locals of these Unions with the same brush. It's pretty easy to sit behind your computer and hide behind what you do. Tell me what business your in and I can guarantee that we can find somebody in that business that has screwed his employees. Should we paint you with this same brush?
Sure some Unions have had problems and many have had problems with corrupt officials, associations with mobs and etc. Unions are also very democratic and the members of these unions need to stand up and run for positions to defeat these officials if it's happing in their union. In many workplaces Unions are necessary as a result of corrput business owners and management.
While your blaming us for your woes you can also blame us for:
Safety Laws,
Paid vacations,
Paid holidays,
Sick leave,
Seniority rights,
Wage increases,
Pensions,
Pension and Insurance Laws,
Workers Compensation,
8 hour days,
Weekends,
Overtime,
Job Security,
Unemployment Benefits,
and in Canada, HEALTH CARE.
Perhaps if your not the owner of the company and your so opposed to unions you should tell you employer to withhold all of the these benefits from your paycheque that unions have won. Perhaps donate this money to charity.
You wouldn't want to be thought of as a FREELOADER would you? So mister big shot why don't you sign a contract with your employer and post it up here signed for all of us to see that your not a FREELOADER.
Although you have University Education, just like myself, it's just in my character to help out others so here is some language to help you with a contract:
I refuse to accept any benefits that were won by the unions and hereby authorize and direct my employer to withhold the amount of all union won benefits from my paycheque and donate it to charity.
Until we see your contract posted up here I'll be one of the many thinking of you as the FREE LOADER.
It's easy to blame the woes of the economy of the USA on the Unions. I'm a Canadian and I often hear the same people blaming organized labour for all of our woes. Blaming a Union is no different than blaming all of you non-union executives for your banking problems isn't it? You want to paint all of the Unions and all of the Locals of these Unions with the same brush. It's pretty easy to sit behind your computer and hide behind what you do. Tell me what business your in and I can guarantee that we can find somebody in that business that has screwed his employees. Should we paint you with this same brush?
Sure some Unions have had problems and many have had problems with corrupt officials, associations with mobs and etc. Unions are also very democratic and the members of these unions need to stand up and run for positions to defeat these officials if it's happing in their union. In many workplaces Unions are necessary as a result of corrput business owners and management.
While your blaming us for your woes you can also blame us for:
Safety Laws,
Paid vacations,
Paid holidays,
Sick leave,
Seniority rights,
Wage increases,
Pensions,
Pension and Insurance Laws,
Workers Compensation,
8 hour days,
Weekends,
Overtime,
Job Security,
Unemployment Benefits,
and in Canada, HEALTH CARE.
Perhaps if your not the owner of the company and your so opposed to unions you should tell you employer to withhold all of the these benefits from your paycheque that unions have won. Perhaps donate this money to charity.
You wouldn't want to be thought of as a FREELOADER would you? So mister big shot why don't you sign a contract with your employer and post it up here signed for all of us to see that your not a FREELOADER.
Although you have University Education, just like myself, it's just in my character to help out others so here is some language to help you with a contract:
I refuse to accept any benefits that were won by the unions and hereby authorize and direct my employer to withhold the amount of all union won benefits from my paycheque and donate it to charity.
Until we see your contract posted up here I'll be one of the many thinking of you as the FREE LOADER.
bobby wilson
Startin Static
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2007
- Messages
- 37
Way back when
In the middle to late 60's Toyota and Honda had no idea how to build cars for the American market. Toyota was first with rugged but spartan trucks, then Coronas and Crowns. None of which would sell in a labor union controlled market. Next came Datsun "66" I believe , no one noticed Datsun until "69" when the Z car came out. I have bought and sold all kinds of vehicles, american and foreign, for over 40 years and have seen many changes ,( Jaguar most reliable car of 2009 ). The Japanese have built some real clunkers and I mean real bad junk ,But so has everyone else. The only advantage foreign markets have ever had over us is cheeper labor . With the new concessions, labor unions are giving up enough to put Detroit back on a level playing field with foreign companies building cars here in our country. Go U.S.A.
P.S. I'm not anti union. Bobby.
In the middle to late 60's Toyota and Honda had no idea how to build cars for the American market. Toyota was first with rugged but spartan trucks, then Coronas and Crowns. None of which would sell in a labor union controlled market. Next came Datsun "66" I believe , no one noticed Datsun until "69" when the Z car came out. I have bought and sold all kinds of vehicles, american and foreign, for over 40 years and have seen many changes ,( Jaguar most reliable car of 2009 ). The Japanese have built some real clunkers and I mean real bad junk ,But so has everyone else. The only advantage foreign markets have ever had over us is cheeper labor . With the new concessions, labor unions are giving up enough to put Detroit back on a level playing field with foreign companies building cars here in our country. Go U.S.A.
P.S. I'm not anti union. Bobby.
So there weren't wage increases before unions?
Has anyone ever sat down and thought why we let government employees join unions?
Our government is supposed to be by and for the people. Why in the world would government employees need a union to represent them? So they don't get oppressed by the government that employs them?
When healtcare get nationalized and doctors and nurses unionize, get ready for the screwing of your lifetime. It ought to be enough to turn even hardcore union members off of unions for ever.
As I was always told "Never argue with an idiot, because people will not be able to tell the difference between the idiot and yourself."
Wow, that is impressive. No need to talk of your education, I can see your intelligence by your arguement.
One problem, real nice deflection on your part though. I, nor any of the others that seem to be on this "side" have said ANYTHING about unions being "THE" problem. Unions are "ONE" of the problems, and I believe that with every fiber of my being.
I can go into problem after problem, and give you link after link to them, but I do not type that well, and my lunch break (that I guess I have to thank a union member for) is almost over.
One small request? Please get over yourself, there was a time and place for unions, and it has passed. I will thank impudent union workers for nothing, and be on my way.
Mullaly has Ford in a position of NOT having to take a bail out.
His prediction (and he has been right so far) is Ford will be profitable again in 2010.
He saw this coming TWO YEARS AGO!!!!!
So tell me....if the Chrysler and GM execs had done the same, would they be in this bind?
He's worth every PENNY of what he gets paid. The misconception that a 1-2-10-20 million dollar bonus somehow is the straw that broke the camels back is retarded. GM loses how many billion a month?!?!?!?
If GM had a "Mallally"...and he kept them out of this hole....what kind of bonus would you recommend???????
Working? Why? Im not laid off,so I have no time to type.
Just to let you know Unions are not the reason we are screwed in this economy right now. It's just no one nows how to save money and spend wisely anymore. Back to the farm I go. Give me you address so I can send you some milk.:biggrin:
USA has got the zips hands down. :wink:
Dennis Kirban
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Messages
- 4,765
kirban 2 cents worth
In looking over the various comments, this is a touchy subject with strong feelings. It also seems to have traveled off base from basically a Chinese made product somehow getting tied to the Japanese.
The joke every Christmas with my 10 year old grand daughter is she counts her presents that say made in china. Its usually 85-90%. Take China out of the equation and Walmart would go under for lack of products.
China has trouble making formula milk products for their own offspring proving you never ever want to put anything in your mouth that came from China.
Being in the automotive industry and knowing many of the big vendors. I can see the pros and cons. Here is one issue. A part gets made in say China first time, next time it gets ordered again that company in China may have farmed it out to a lesser company so it can make better money. Meantime you get the second delivery and quality is no where near the first delivery.
Quality control working over there is a full tme job for major companies. Most if not 99% of the diecast cars no matter what scale they are come from China. Most are pretty well detailed and correct.
Whatever they pay their help over there to carefully pack a strong of 150 christmas lites into that neat package would drive most of us in the US nuts.
Here is a real twist being we are into Buicks. The Buick last year sold more in China than the US. That in itself may be the saving grace that GM keeps Buick in their GM family......talk about a weird twist of fate.
When I was kid many of the metal toys etc came from Japan....I am sure most folks felt the same way especially that close to the end of WW II.
Heck some of the turbo parts we now buy from GM say made in China. Some late model Corvette parts we buy say made in Korea....
When our economy didn't suck it was hard to get items made here as companies had huge costs etc....now times have changed and for the US to get competitive again has to readjust their priorities.
Japanese build some nice cars.....ask any used car dealer don't take my word for it, Hondas hold their value. Sure the early stuff when it hit our shores was nothing to get excited about, but many foreign car companies have done their homework and regardless of what you believe, the US is the market everyone wants a piece of.
kirbanperformance.com
denniskirban@yahoo.com
Somewhere in China is a printing company that cranks out millions of made in china labels every day.
Plus makes those stupid tie straps which keeps every toy from escaping during the boat ride.
In looking over the various comments, this is a touchy subject with strong feelings. It also seems to have traveled off base from basically a Chinese made product somehow getting tied to the Japanese.
The joke every Christmas with my 10 year old grand daughter is she counts her presents that say made in china. Its usually 85-90%. Take China out of the equation and Walmart would go under for lack of products.
China has trouble making formula milk products for their own offspring proving you never ever want to put anything in your mouth that came from China.
Being in the automotive industry and knowing many of the big vendors. I can see the pros and cons. Here is one issue. A part gets made in say China first time, next time it gets ordered again that company in China may have farmed it out to a lesser company so it can make better money. Meantime you get the second delivery and quality is no where near the first delivery.
Quality control working over there is a full tme job for major companies. Most if not 99% of the diecast cars no matter what scale they are come from China. Most are pretty well detailed and correct.
Whatever they pay their help over there to carefully pack a strong of 150 christmas lites into that neat package would drive most of us in the US nuts.
Here is a real twist being we are into Buicks. The Buick last year sold more in China than the US. That in itself may be the saving grace that GM keeps Buick in their GM family......talk about a weird twist of fate.
When I was kid many of the metal toys etc came from Japan....I am sure most folks felt the same way especially that close to the end of WW II.
Heck some of the turbo parts we now buy from GM say made in China. Some late model Corvette parts we buy say made in Korea....
When our economy didn't suck it was hard to get items made here as companies had huge costs etc....now times have changed and for the US to get competitive again has to readjust their priorities.
Japanese build some nice cars.....ask any used car dealer don't take my word for it, Hondas hold their value. Sure the early stuff when it hit our shores was nothing to get excited about, but many foreign car companies have done their homework and regardless of what you believe, the US is the market everyone wants a piece of.
kirbanperformance.com
denniskirban@yahoo.com
Somewhere in China is a printing company that cranks out millions of made in china labels every day.
Plus makes those stupid tie straps which keeps every toy from escaping during the boat ride.
Well said. The title of this site sould have been Why to buy a quality down pipe. You would be one to know this market.Thanks Dennis
