Wiped out the thrust bearing with new 2004R

[youngerss]

For some reason the thrust bearing has been wiped out on my Pontiac 400 engine after installing the new EA 2004 trans and Continental non LU converter. I have a major oil leak from the rear main after not even 30 minutes of stationary run time. I can actually grab the flywheel and move it back and forth at least an 1/8"........I spaced the converter 1/8" before bolting it to the flywheel so I cannot understand what happened to cause this. The engine was freshened up with all new mains and rod bearings installed and never leaked before installing the new 2004R and 10" converter replacing the TH350.

I''ll be yanking both the eng/trans today.


I'm waiting to hear from Lonnie concerning this.

I'm so disgusted with this I am ready to just throw in the towel and sell this car and let someone else deal with it.

 

[Blazer406]

For some reason the thrust bearing has been wiped out on my Pontiac 400 engine after installing the new EA 2004 trans and Continental non LU converter. I have a major oil leak from the rear main after not even 30 minutes of stationary run time. I can actually grab the flywheel and move it back and forth at least an 1/8"........I spaced the converter 1/8" before bolting it to the flywheel so I cannot understand what happened to cause this. The engine was freshened up with all new mains and rod bearings installed and never leaked before installing the new 2004R and 10" converter replacing the TH350.

I''ll be yanking both the eng/trans today.


I'm waiting to hear from Lonnie concerning this.

I'm so disgusted with this I am ready to just throw in the towel and sell this car and let someone else deal with it.

I think you need to check your cooler line pressure..... apparently if it is too high... it can try and drive the converter into the flexplate... and into the thrust bearing.

Your converter isn't balloning is it?

 

[youngerss]

I don't believe the converter ballooned.........I talked to CTC today and they highly doubt it did. My engine is definitely a low-po 400 and CTC claimed that the converter has an anti-balloon plate on one side only because of my stock application.

At this point they are saying to talk to the trans builder.

I can't run any more pressure checks because I don't want to cause any further damage to the crank. I am hoping it's still useable but there is an awful lot of movement.

The only main line reading I got before shutting down was approx 115 psi in PARK with TV disconnected. According to Lonnie this reading was acceptable.

 

[charlief1]

I'm wondering if the convertor was seated all the way in and you were running off the dogs. Not likely but it can happen and the extra pressure would cause more than normal thrust pressure.

 

[youngerss]

How's this for a recipe for disaster?

 

[pacecarta]

the only time to space the converter from the flywheel is if there is more than 3/16 clearance between the converter and the flywheel with the converter fully seated into the trans , and then you only shim the difference if over 3/16 to ensure the converter isnt pulled more than 3/16 out of the pump , and atleast 1/8 out of the pump
if you measure 3/16 with converter fully seated in trans , then you could just slide it to the flywheel and bolt it up or toss in a 1/16" shim
if you measure 1/4" the shim should only be 1/16 -1/8 ..
did 1/8 in at the flywheel put the converter tighter than 1/8 to the pump, if so theres one possibility


you also need to check the fit of the coverter hub to the rear of the crank , if your converter fits too snug or doesnt allow you to slide the converter freely to the flywheel then thats a red flag that you need to look at the converter hub fit in the crank , sometimes they do not fit this needs to be checked on all aftermarket converters and usually check this first before the converter ever goes into the trans

btw the rub marks on the flywheel (if thats what im supposed to be looking at in the pic) dont look like they could have occured from the converter you have pictured , but since you posted it i also see you have a manual trans roller bushing in that crank , what are the odds the manual trans that was behind that crank caused damage to the thrust prior to the trans install , did you check the thrust surface condition and clearance prior to putting the crank to service



and yeah im an old pontiac guy

 

[mikestertwo]

did you check the thrust surface condition and clearance prior to putting the crank to service

This was my first thought. Did you check it before you installed the new trans?

 

[charlief1]

You've still got the pilot bearing in the crank for what I can see. That's the reason for the mark on the convertor. Looks like the bearing may have been pushing on the nose of the convertor which would explaine the ring on the flexplate.

 

[youngerss]

You've still got the pilot bearing in the crank for what I can see. That's the reason for the mark on the convertor. Looks like the bearing may have been pushing on the nose of the convertor which would explaine the ring on the flexplate.

yep.........there is an old pilot bearing still stuck in the hub of the crank. (There is no ring on the flexplate. It's a flash reflection)

Now I'm going to ASSUME that this was the issue since everything else was checked and double checked. (spacing,etc) When I bolted the converter to the flexplate the nose of the converter did not come in contact with that pilot bearing but it must have been very close......it's obvious with the paint worn off the hub that there was indeed contact.

I really don't see any other external issues that could have caused the thrust bearing to wipe out after less than 30 minutes of run time........not even driven on the street.

Engine is out tomorrow to inspect the crank. Hope it ain't toast.

 

[youngerss]

This was my first thought. Did you check it before you installed the new trans?

Yes, it was checked for proper clearance when the new bearings were installed. And since there were zero miles on said bearings when the original TH350 was removed and replaced with the 2004R, I didn't recheck.

The crank was from a different engine. The original was no good.......but obviously the pilot was not removed.

I'm curious as to why there was no issue with the stock converter that was used with the TH350. Looking at it, it seems the hub of that converter does not stick out as far as the 10" Continental unit thus not making contact with the pilot bearing.

Talking with CTC today they claim a ballooning converter is highly unlikely especially with a very short run time and not even street driven.

I'm still scratching my head on this..........

 

[pacecarta]

btw the quickest way to remove that pilot is fill the recess behind it with grease ( from a grease gun) and then find a shaft close to the size of the hole ( a socket on an extension with grease in the socket works ), slip it in a little then hit it straight in with a hammer , the pilot bearing will pop out on its own from the pressure behind it