"109" Stock Block Class Racing - What's the Point Anymore?

[southern boost]

Hey Dave thanxs buddy and I talked to race jace at bg real consevative on the tune and runnin bottom nines .I truly think stage motor is a gain you can be more on the edge with your tune and etc.etc. .Bottomline anything I say they say different ,so whatever .

 

[sackracing]

Jason's car is heavy too

 

[johnplogii]

I attended my first heads up race in bowling green & had a blast. If they change it to index racing I will not participate. I can bracket race/index race 15 miles from home.

 

[KevinB]

I attended my first heads up race in bowling green & had a blast. If they change it to index racing I will not participate. I can bracket race/index race 15 miles from home.

Its addicting!
I actually like building my car around rules of a class. My silver car was built around the ths rules. It gives you motivation to get the most out of your combo. It also gives you a standard to compare yourself to. Half the fun imo is comparing my results to other similar cars.

 

[antiquettype]

I don't understand the people who have said they would run TSM if stage blocks were allowed. Run TSL, the 4276 fits in a stock location. The cars are only 100 lbs different. Put your money where your mouth is and run TSL. Sure, the class is short on cars, but it doesn't have to be. If you really think about it, the class is the most practical of TSO, TSL, and TSM combinations.

 

[sackracing]

Exactly. I would like to hear a response.

 

[Mike E]

I've never considered running tsl because I've never seen it run. It's always been merged with tso every time I've been to a race. I'll consider it, but if its goint to be lumped into tso, I'm keeping the stage 2 heads and just plan on tso.

 

[sackracing]

Cal would know more about it, but I think they combine them to increase car count. I heard they ran TSL at bg on Friday and ran a combo class on Saturday with everyone getting a payout.

 

[KevinB]

The only problem with those other TS classes is they run them only at bg. If you got Norwalk, bpg, Osceola, etc... you are a tso car.

 

[Bent6]

The index thing won't ever happen so let that one go. While I think it has a purpose, it's probably not the solution to the issue here.

Everyone keeps going back to discussing TSM and it sure looks like several would be open to allowing Stage2 blocks with a weight penalty. I bet that class could pick up at least 5 cars if that worked out. It would be neat to see what a 71mm turbo can really do without fear of pushing the short block too far. Instead of struggling to field 8 cars the class could potentially double or even triple.........or you could just leave things as they are and hope you have a class in a couple of more years. I might even come out for TSM if I didn't have to turn my street car into a race car just to make it live at the track - you know - put my money where my mouth is. The Stage blocks would give people that option. Wouldn't it be cool to have an 8sec car that was actually streetable?

Bottom line with me is that I just wish some of the rules in the heads up classes were opened up a bit to allow more combinations to fit without adding more classes which is the last thing we need. Turbo size and weight should be the primary equalizer in all of the heads up classes other than stock apperaring stuff. All I have left to say is that change is needed but if no one is willing to step out and try something different there may not be enough cars participating to hold these event down the road.

Peace ya'll

 

[Sydwyndr]

I've never considered running tsl because I've never seen it run. It's always been merged with tso every time I've been to a race. I'll consider it, but if its goint to be lumped into tso, I'm keeping the stage 2 heads and just plan on tso.

Mike take a look into TSL if you decide to. We are running it on 2 seperate days in NC, as did BG, to try to increase car count and not limit folks from driving a HUGE distance and being able to only run 1 class.

The index thing won't ever happen so let that one go. While I think it has a purpose, it's probably not the solution to the issue here.

Will, keep the faith bro..... Problem is alot of people dont understand it or how it works, most are too close-minded to even try to make it work. Tryin to hold on to the past, however your can never go forward looking in the rearview mirror. If any directors are running a 2 day event and most do. I would recommend running Index on Friday and the normal classes on Saturday. That way it can be slowly introduced to the buick community for better understanding. People are reluctant to change ya know.

 

[Phoneguy]

I think that index racing is the future. It allows heads up racing with no or limited rules. As long as the indexes allow for a decent spread between them the races will be very close and no one will run away with the class. Index racing also allows a racer to make changes and better their car to go up to the next level in the index while still allowing the racer to enter at non Buick specific races and build the car the way they want without having to bend to specific TS(X) rules. Say you normally run a 10.49 index, you change your tune or the air quality is perfect and the track is well prepped, in qualifying you run 10.30 and you don't want to de-tune your car to stay within the 10.49 index, step up to the next class and have some fun. I am sure that with some input from others the index classes could have full fields of racers due to not having to build your car "their way". Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Bryan

 

[getchasum]

There is absolutely ZERO performance advantage to a block.

I will have to disagree with that statement….

Splayed caps, 4 & 6 bolt mains, 14 bolt deck all wrapped up with more meat definitely is a performance advantage.

 

[southern boost]

I will have to disagree with that statement….

Splayed caps, 4 & 6 bolt mains, 14 bolt deck all wrapped up with more meat definitely is a performance advantage.

Thank you Sir , gn1-r on a 14 bolt block 40 psi and billet 71 hpQ sound like mid 8s evry pass .

The 109 block is the equalizer bottomline .


I've enjoy this thread it fun and brought up some stuff to talk bout .

Clint buddy missed your post bout index I will run it at times no hate here buddy .

 

[toofastforyou]

I will have to disagree with that statement….

Splayed caps, 4 & 6 bolt mains, 14 bolt deck all wrapped up with more meat definitely is a performance advantage.

Well, I Do agree...The block does not MAKE power, it simply holds everything together, to allow the real parts which make power to stay together. The power is made in the heads, cam, etc...but does NOT come from the block.:wink:

Claude.

 

[Sydwyndr]

Well, I Do agree...The block does not MAKE power, it simply holds everything together, to allow the real parts which make power to stay together. The power is made in the heads, cam, etc...but does NOT come from the block.:wink:

Claude.

Couldn't agree more with that Claude

I will have to disagree with that statement….

Splayed caps, 4 & 6 bolt mains, 14 bolt deck all wrapped up with more meat definitely is a performance advantage.

Couldn't DISAGREE more with this statement... With all else being the same. The stage block in my opinion does not offer ANY performance advantage other than cubic inch. It is more about reliablility which is the reason Will started this thread in the first place. I also agree with I believe it was Lonnie that stated that the 71 turbo on a 250" motor would be more efficient at using the available airflow than a stage motor would be at 270+ inches. Just as if an 88mm turbo would be far better choice on the 270+ stage or TA than a 250" 109. I could be completely way off base here but in theory I agree with what has been stated.

Also agree with Randy, this has been a great thread that has brought up alot of good points about engines and race classes

 

[RICHIE HIGH PSI]

SO.....231 ci motor is the same hp as a 270ci. NO.
i can assure you that a stage block will run in the 8 sec range pretty easy.
IF YOU guys say it cant, than you probably should not be playing with these cars.

 

[re-evaluating]

So what you are saying is that a 231 would make less power than a 260 plus inch motor period? What does that have to do with the block being used? There are stock blocks over 260 inches out there and the 231's are already forced to compete against that and they aren't complaining are they?

I guess you are saying your big inch 109 will make more power than my 234 inch stage motor. I guess I should be asking for that weight break instead of offering it. Just sayin' <<< Randy hope you don't mind me borrowing that?

Don't worry too much guys, I'm slower than all the current TSM posters in this thread and I'm not trying to get anyone to let me in TSM.

On the other hand I have been in the Buick world 20 years and love these cars and I hate to see these classes fade away and TSM is doing just that. How many TSM cars were at the other points races this year besides the 10 that showed up at BG? We used to have a lot of cars in TSM at all the races even the smallest races were as good as BG this year and we had nearly three times as many at BG 04/05.

As far as putting my money where my mouth is I already covered that and the Buick is just not the most important thing in my life. If I based it solely off the money I would have to sell my junk and build an LSx because I can go just as fast for a lot less with one of those. I am not looking to set the world on fire so I could build more power and have money left. In fact the more I think about it the more it make sense.

Hey Will maybe you can point me in a little milder direction in the LS world.

SO.....231 ci motor is the same hp as a 270ci. NO.
i can assure you that a stage block will run in the 8 sec range pretty easy.
IF YOU guys say it cant, than you probably should not be playing with these cars.

 

[KevinB]

Don't smaller engines get more power out of the same sized turbo than a bigger engine can?

 

[Kip]

Don't smaller engines get more power out of the same sized turbo than a bigger engine can?

Not always. Depends on size of engine and size of turbo, it is a package deal.

See ya, Kip