1987 pro-touring grand national, from the ground up
- Thread starter dsapper
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Pittsburghkid
Displacement Replacement.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,774
Please when you do the auto with paddle shift make a new thread just for that specific topic as I've always wanted to do that. Next you'll be taking my ideas of bringing the GN into the future by not only the paddle shift tranny but setting it up with Onstar.
hello; Those ceramic coated parts (to me) look the balls. Save me some time as ceramic is like a the Jet Hot coating for heat correct? Now powder coating is a hard durable finish for durability not heat. Does ceramic chip? I don't know with anyone else but I read ceramic I think hard and brittle.
IBBY
IBBY
@ pittsburgkid - I'm not sure exactly when I'm doing the transmission, there is a bit more figuring out to do, plus the cost is a big pill to swallow all at once lol, but Ill make sure to post all the details. And I actually already was looking into the onstar review mirror retrofit they started selling at bestbuy lol. I'm already planning on gps, modern power seats etc
@jlat - Its not really ceramic, not sure why they call it that. There are hundreds of different coatings to keep heat out, keep heat in, dissipate heat etc. They all apply like powder coating with the spray and bake combo. Its not brittle or easily scratched but its not bulletproof. The exhaust coating I got holds heat in to increase exhaust velocity which helps in scavenging and keeps the engine compartments temperature down. Plus it looks great imho
@jlat - Its not really ceramic, not sure why they call it that. There are hundreds of different coatings to keep heat out, keep heat in, dissipate heat etc. They all apply like powder coating with the spray and bake combo. Its not brittle or easily scratched but its not bulletproof. The exhaust coating I got holds heat in to increase exhaust velocity which helps in scavenging and keeps the engine compartments temperature down. Plus it looks great imho
LOL. Screw those guys and all the other "cheque book hot rodders" with their "magazine build" elitist attitudes. That and their "auto-x/road race" events used to try and justify their ridiculous expenses. What a f*cking joke.
Although it is fun to sit back and watch those “Pro Touring” guys mouth-hug each other; and it gets really good when one of them get screwed by a builder and they have nothing to show for their money.
I say: Do your own work and race your own car because the sweat equity is really worth something when you can hold yourself accountable.
Regardless, I am enjoying this nice clean build...
@charlief1 - no blow through but quite a bit of sloppy or completely missed welds, I think the guys welding these frames were drunk honestly
@jlat - The exhaust is a cottons dual 2 1/2" stainless exhaust, the down pipe is rjc racing and the IC is a pte stock location intercooler. No manual, actually converting to a six speed automatic with paddle shifters for this car
So I have some pictures of the bottom, they were just starting on it when I swung by to check on the progress. The frame side of the motor mounts is fully perimeter welded and the holes are filled for the old bolts.
Your doing excellent work.......GOOD JOB!!! Have you thought about leaving a little of the frame folds unwelded to give the frame some flex? I like to leave a good chunk of it unwelded. Thats just my theory though.
Its funny you pick this thread to make that opinion known. I actually am having a shop build this for me (which I've made clear) so I guess that would make me a "cheque book hot rodder" as you put it. I've built 5 cars myself and now my situation in life has changed. I'm now fortunate, or unfortunate, enough (depending on how you look at it) to have more money than time but I still love the hobby and have no problem supporting a hard working shop. And for most guys paying to have their cars built its the same way.
I'd love to know what I should do instead of being a "cheque book hot rodder"? Get out of hot rodding since I'm not "man enough" to do it myself any more? Quit my job I've been working hard at for the last decade to find a more hot rod friendly schedule? Take away what little free time I do have to spend with my new fiance and devote that to building a car I want?
I have nothing but respect for most of the guys over on those forums and they push the limits of what can and will be done with their unlimited budget builds and fortunately alot of the one off parts they make filter down to the regular guys. And I'm not sure how many of these guys you've had dealings with for the "elitist attitudes" but I've talked to many of them over the years from Chip Foose, the ring brothers, to mary ponzi at sema and always was greeted with a genuine excitement about their cars and a willingness to talk to anyone. Hell when I met the ring brothers I was in a hyundai shirt walking buy "razor" and ended up talking to them for an hour about a car I could never dream of making with not even a hint of annoyance.
Were all hot rodders, from the misguided kid that puts a $10.99 autozone "fart can" on his honda to the guy that builds a 500k show car.
/end rant
No, I've never heard anything about a frame flexing being a good thing haha. I prefer all the suspension to do the work, not sure how I could "dial-in" a frame
No, I've never heard anything about a frame flexing being a good thing haha. I prefer all the suspension to do the work, not sure how I could "dial-in" a frame
Yeah it's definately a hard thing to get a correct balance.
For me, I have had a hard time with frames that have been completely welded becuase they tend to be a little too stiff. But I have had good luck balancing them back out by removing the polly body bushngs and re-installing stock rubber bushings. It really depends what your looking for I suppose. For complete performance, obviously it's better to be stiff. In my personal car, I decided to re-install the stock type body bushings once I did my frame notch and frame re-bracing due to the rear of the car being to stiff. It seemed to pre-load the rear suspension too quickly and I felt the body stiffness was causing this. It's seemed to help but it really hasnt been tested since the car has been down for a while now. With my front end and the SPC uppers, there's not much give to it in the bushings. I also decided to use Moog problem solvers in the stock lower arms, which I boxed. I persoanlly have been trying to find ways to balance the cars geometry in other ways besides just the actual suspension parts. I've just been trying to hypothesis and test different theories to make the car work.
I'm not to worried about stiffness and almost every suspension component I have from the shocks to the front and rear control arms to the wattslink can be adjusted. If I can't dial it in to an acceptable level with those tools I doubt I ever would be able to. I actually bought aluminum bushings but went with poly to lower the stiffness a small amount. So if anyone wants some unused aluminium bushings I have a set haha.
Squid4life
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2004
- Messages
- 6,275
That frame looks great! I really wish I would have taken the time to do mine when I lifted the entire body up to do the body bushings. Wouldn't have been much more work to completely remove it at that point.
This is a really great build; very motivating! Thanks for sharing!
This is a really great build; very motivating! Thanks for sharing!
Yes you did and by my definition it would make you a cheque book hot rodder; especially if you never turn a wrench on this thing yourself at any stage of the build or during its upkeep.
That’s fine, and I can respect that you’ve done it yourself at one time or another, or on multiple occasions. I can also respect that you want to support local industry. But, where is the passion when you leave it to someone else to do it all for you? This hobby is about involvement, not being disconnected.
Most, not all.
Yes, you should be involved in it other than simply providing the funding; go get your hands dirty at that shop. As far as your “woe is me” diatribe about time I will have trouble sympathizing being that I am an Infantry Officer with a young family, with a house and a fleet of cars to maintain myself.
Everyone is a potential customer; treating everyone fairly is just good business sense. Having also met many of those same personalities of Hot Rodding’s “inner circle” at Detroit’s Autorama over the past decade there are definitely some good ones in the mix. However, my issue isn’t with them, it is those who commission the cars and get their panties in a bunch when you ask them technical questions about their cars and they have to refer to a build sheet or a receipt. This hobby was founded by innovative young men and women looking to find a way to go faster; the high dollar infusion into the hot rodding/muscle car market has killed it for the intended audience.
True. But, at least the “fart can” kid installed it himself.
If you don’t buy what I am saying watch the movie “Love the Beast”, it sums up the proper relationship between a man and his machine.
If you didn’t build it, it’s not yours.
However, I digress... but, I will gladly continue this debate via PMs to avoid sullying the excellent work being done on this project.
Del-A-Lums (delrin) bushings and Roto-ball joints have made for a very smooth bind-free suspension in my Buick. With minimal (zero?) deflection you can safely run the stock rubber body bushings to cut down on NHV issues into the cabin or move to a more solid material with little consequence when removing the flex from the frame.
It really says something when you are out Auto-Xing giving ride-alongs to 240SX/Miata/Lotus owners who are impressed with how well the car rides/handles.
Gentlemen, I'm not being mean or nasty here. Please remember this is about the build and not the person. If I had the cash I might let someone else build my car as well but I don't. Don't tear him down and in return, don't take it personally dsaper. If you guys want to take shots at each other do it through PM's or email but don't do it this way.:smile:
I'd hate to have Shane or someone else step in if this continues.:frown:
Thank you.
I'd hate to have Shane or someone else step in if this continues.:frown:
Thank you.
wow... I really could care less about your opinion and I dont remember asking for it. I'm only posting this thread to give back to this forum that I've learned quite a bit from as a thank you. I could give a rats ass if you or anyone else ever see's or knows one thing about this car besides my family or friends. You think its worth my time to go take pictures, pull them off my phone, rotate them, host them and post them on this forum!?!? Get bent
swung by the shop at lunch to check on an update. Its mostly done, there are a few things here and there to do but the goal is to have it done tonight. The powdercoat guy is picking it up at 3pm tomorrow. Ill try and swing by tonight and get some finished pictures before powdercoat. Also the engine is going together, ill try and grab a snapshot of that as well
Pittsburghkid
Displacement Replacement.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,774
It's like your in my head.
If I had your pocketbook it might be you reading my thread saying damn I was gonna do all that.lol I didn't know they had Onstar retrofit mirrors at bestbuy. I was looking into doing that in my car but ended going up with the suburban rearview mirror with the built in compass, and temp with a custom deep blue color. Also the built in LED maplights since I have a T-Top car with only opera lights. Don't go stealin all my thoughts now. haha
