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1987 pro-touring grand national, from the ground up

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yeah, check out this link

OnStar FMV available at Best Buy July 24th for $300 -- Engadget

Its the retrofit. I actually put a mirror like the one your talking about in my 72 camaro. A company called gentex makes almost all oem autodimming mirrors, with homelink, compass etc. Worked great but was a bit heavy so the vibration from the big cam and solid frame bushings made it unusable, going a bit calmer this time around
 
I'm not to worried about stiffness and almost every suspension component I have from the shocks to the front and rear control arms to the wattslink can be adjusted. If I can't dial it in to an acceptable level with those tools I doubt I ever would be able to. I actually bought aluminum bushings but went with poly to lower the stiffness a small amount. So if anyone wants some unused aluminium bushings I have a set haha.

Are you planning to use Currectrac control arms? I like mine for sure. You can tell a very obvious difference in the ride quality with them. There's literally no bind like you get with the standard style bushings. The Johnny Joints are awesome!
 
Wow now I'm sad. I don't own my car. I don't work on it so it's not mine..
Too bad someone can crap on your build like that... Tell those guys doing the work, GREAT JOB. and props to you for getting what you want....
 
Its funny you pick this thread to make that opinion known. I actually am having a shop build this for me (which I've made clear) so I guess that would make me a "cheque book hot rodder" as you put it. I've built 5 cars myself and now my situation in life has changed. I'm now fortunate, or unfortunate, enough (depending on how you look at it) to have more money than time but I still love the hobby and have no problem supporting a hard working shop. And for most guys paying to have their cars built its the same way.

I'd love to know what I should do instead of being a "cheque book hot rodder"? Get out of hot rodding since I'm not "man enough" to do it myself any more? Quit my job I've been working hard at for the last decade to find a more hot rod friendly schedule? Take away what little free time I do have to spend with my new fiance and devote that to building a car I want?

I have nothing but respect for most of the guys over on those forums and they push the limits of what can and will be done with their unlimited budget builds and fortunately alot of the one off parts they make filter down to the regular guys. And I'm not sure how many of these guys you've had dealings with for the "elitist attitudes" but I've talked to many of them over the years from Chip Foose, the ring brothers, to mary ponzi at sema and always was greeted with a genuine excitement about their cars and a willingness to talk to anyone. Hell when I met the ring brothers I was in a hyundai shirt walking buy "razor" and ended up talking to them for an hour about a car I could never dream of making with not even a hint of annoyance.

Were all hot rodders, from the misguided kid that puts a $10.99 autozone "fart can" on his honda to the guy that builds a 500k show car.

/end rant
Now THAT is a great reply regarding this topic. For the record, In my personal experience, most of the "elitists" who think they are so much better than everyone else are the ones who claim to build their own and spout the "built, not bought" bull$hit.

Me personally, I don't have the ability to do what professionals do. I wasn't fortunate enough to have the time to learn. However, the finished product is based on my directive which is dictated by the designs I have in my head for the car. Sure, I paid someone else to do the actual work. But all he went by was what I told him I wanted it to look like and used the parts I brought him. And at the end of the day, I ended up with a vehicle that is fairly unique and that is also most definitely known as mine. I have never once heard "Oh.... that's the car built by 'insert guy(s) who actually did the work here'".

Sure, there are a few people out there detached from a build. They just take a blank check, go to a shop and say "build me a 'whatever'". But to say the owner of the car in this thread is detached.... Ummmm... No. He researched all the parts. Obviously he is at the shop a hell of a lot to get the pictures. And he is all over the build. Pretty much the way all of my builds have gone, except this one is a build of much more grand scale than mine have been thus far.

Another thing I wonder about the guys in this thread (and elsewhere in the world) who state that building your own is the only way to truly be a car guy... Do you do EVERYTHING to your cars? By that I mean, if it needs an engine build, a trans build, a rear end build, the powder coating of a frame and other things, bodywork, a paint job, upholstering of seats and other interior work, etc..... ANYTHING the car needs, you MUST do all of this yourself, right? Because if you don't (and I would bet that you don't do everything), then you, too, would be yet another "built it, didn't buy it" guy who is dripping in hypocrisy because your convictions only apply to the things you actually know how to do, and you get someone else to take care of the things you don't.

Anyhoo, yea, the haters are gonna hate. My rant is probably pointless in that aspect. But alas, I typed all of this crap up anyway.



Either way, this is one seriously BAD ASS BUILD and I am definitely subscribing to the thread. :cool:


Carry on. :biggrin:
 
Some good looking work. Do yourself a favor and use rubber frame bushings. Urethane will be too stiff. Specially after the Nasa welding project.;)

Someday I plan to do this to my car. Only thing I will be doing the fabrication and welding. :biggrin:
 
Some good looking work. Do yourself a favor and use rubber frame bushings. Urethane will be too stiff. Specially after the Nasa welding project.;)

Someday I plan to do this to my car. Only thing I will be doing the fabrication and welding. :biggrin:

I used solids in my 68 Camaro...
You definitely know when you're on the road or airborne...
Wishing I went PE.

Personally, I'd go PE for a performance build that I intend to truly "drive" or occasionally compete with.

If I'm building one that will be a cruiser and not planning on entering any competition racing with it...I'd go rubber....and keep my teeth...

...and on the other subject...I too have met many of the folks who run the companies and build the cars that are feeding the Pro-touring craze with great designed parts and services and they are...simply put...great people.
I spent time with them at SEMA a few years back...attended a couple of the dinners and after parties with a couple buddies of mine...and had a great time with them all.
Even met Lou Santiago:biggrin: (the former host of Muscle Car)...gawd he's a blast to hang with. X-Navy guy....he served during the same time I did...

I didn't have to force my way into conversations with them, they would pull me in and treated me great....no sales pitches....just car folks talking cars.

They are all hard working people who have built some wicked machines...and also taken the time and effort to use their talents and capabilities to bring to the market great parts and services for folks just like them...and the consumer can either buy the parts and install themselves if they have the equipment, time and aptitude, or if they so choose and have the pocket book to...they can pay to have them properly and professionally installed by the designers. No harm in that IMHO...and to say otherwise...IMHO...is just reverse elitism...

My good friend is building his twin turbo'd 69 Camaro in his own garage using his own tools and hands... one step at a time...getting great advice on his build and picking up some very nice parts from these folks at P-T.com and L-G.net that they either never used or no longer need for a fraction of the price of new...also buying new where it makes the most sence (e.g. the DSE Q-link and minitubs...the base twin turbo kit...etc.) and using them in his build...but none of these people are telling him (go to our website and make your purchase...
Some of these great folks have even had him over to their own homes or shops to show him and teach him the best way to install their parts.

Summed up...if you have never met the people you're trash talking...and have not taken the time to get to really know them....then your comments about them couldn't be any more than....meaningless... :rolleyes:

Back to this build...

GREAT BUILD dsapper!
Keep it up...and pay whoever you want;)
...it helps us all learn.
 
@ jdpolzin - acutally I have the upper and lower currectrac rear control arms. The uppers are out getting powder coated to match the lowers as we speak (no idea why they make their own uppers anodized baby blue and the lowers black?!)

@ turboburick - I already have the urethane so Ill go with those first but if it seems to be unbearable Ill switch to rubber after the build.

So, I did stop by the shop last night and have final pictures of the frame. The frame mounts are boxed in, factory seams welded and most unused holes are filled. It is heading out to powdercoat this afternoon with quite a few other parts and will be about a week, give or take. Hopefully I can show you some line-x pictures from the bottom of the car and the engine build during that time

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So, I decided to ahem "borrow" my bosses F430 Ferrari and see what I'm up against, thats my mug in the car fyi. I'm not so sure about this any more haha. The car is a beast that handles like it is on rails and stops so hard your eyes bulge. I'm just not sure I can do enough to keep up with a 250k dedicated "supercar". I do have the advantage driving skill wise but I'm not sure I could keep up with an 80 year old woman driving this thing.... Its alot more interesting then I thought it would be anyways lol

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So I swung by the shop to compare the two machines side by side ;)

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Yeah!!

Well if you can't beat him, Just push him off the road... :)

Rubbin racin man!! That's why our cars have steel bumpers and the Ferarri doesn't. ;)

Great build!

Question popped into my head. How much weight do you think you added to the frame?
 
I don't know about his but when I started on mine I could easily lift either end up by hand. Now it's a little more difficult and 2 people moving it is a strain.
 
Rubbin racin man!! That's why our cars have steel bumpers and the Ferarri doesn't. ;)

Great build!

Question popped into my head. How much weight do you think you added to the frame?

Hmmm maybe Ill race him before any body work... lol. Not sure on the weight but the frame was "heavy as sh*t before" hand and using a very precise scale its roughly the same amount of "heavy as sh*t" as before. I'm actually using aluminum bumper inserts and mounts and a fiberglass hood to try and offset any weight I add with the frame, line-x and dynamat/stereo. Throw in the aluminum radiator, heads, racing parts etc... I think it should all be about equal with better weight distribution.
 
hello; Graphite, composite over fiberglass. Saves weight and strong if they make it.
IBBY
 
Its going to be driven, not raced. Most fiberglass looks like crap, I'm going with the hartline hood only because it looks so good. They do make carbon fiber but its 3x the cost and racing stuff only
 
A big milestone today, the chassis and most parts are back from powder coat today and I have to say it all looks amazing. The powder coat guy did an insane job, there is not one square inch inside or out not powder coated. He actually coated 100% of the INSIDE of the frame as well, it turned out great!

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You can see her how well they did the inside

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Its hard to take a picture of but this best represents what it looks like. From far away it looks gunmetal, its not till your a few feet away you see this

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Here is a good shot of the frame side motor mounts. They are fully perimeter welded on, holes filled and the back of the mounts gusseted and boxed in completely.
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Hopefully some progress will happen this week, the body is still at line-x and they are telling me Wednesday or Thursday afternoon for delivery.
 
Not sure if you guys are interested but I snapped a few shots of a few cars they are building along side mine.

A cobra replica, they guy has close to 200k in this thing, INSANE motor, craziest suspension I've ever seen (8 double adjustable coil overs)

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A nice old buick is getting a bunch of TLC, bushings, seals, mounts etc
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hello; Those are some nice cars there and yours is going to be right up there. There's no rust problems in Nevada is there? It's probably like Florida where the sun is the problem and if you got a garage I guess your all set.
I guess New England is the same with a garage but the drivin season isn't as long.
IBBY
 
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