224 Stage I Single Turbo Buick V6 does the impossible. 8.76 @ 158.7

[Alky V6]

His combo is completey off the beaten path and i like it,dont take what i post the wrong way.

NO ONE is here telling him to stroke the motor,put on better heads,change his cam,go back to gas,take off the nitrous
These are the major parts that make his combo off the beaten path.

The turbo on the other hand gives him a huge obstacle to overcome,
(i know he said he is thinking future with this turbo)

As far as his torque convertor is concerened, its not like he is building this himself from scratch and trying to reinvent it,if that was the case i would leave that alone and listen to what he finds.
I realize he is most liklely giving input to his convertor guys but i dont consider it off the beaten path to use a brand convertor that is putting huge amounts of time and r&d into their V6 convertor program.

Let me try to explain my latest TC choice. I'll try to explain all the angles to my decision for not going with a TC from Dusty,... yet.

Even at this point in time, the engine is not up to full potential. As Dusty has already agreed, it would be a waste of time trying to come up with a TC for an engine that has not yet been developed to its full potential. I am impressed with what Dusty has been able to do with others. I do watch what's going on. I don't want to waste his talents at a time when I don't think this engine is at full potential. That is a point that Dusty and I understand very well, while others, it appears, don't.

When I was running the tighter NC TC, I was still at a point where I wasn't sure if I would be able to spool this 91mm to my satisfaction. I was still in the middle of discovering a new type of nitrous tune that would eventually solve all my problems. Knowing that I was still at a point where I didn't fully understand the full potential of my setup, I decided that now was not the time to bother Dusty for a TC. I wanted to save his talents for the final optimum setup, which would have to wait until after I had thoroughly explored and understood the potential of this engine. Understand that if Dusty can pull off a proper match, his TC will be included in my final 'end of the road' tune for this configuration.
Anyway, I was at a point with my tuneup where I knew that I needed an interim TC to use for testing with my current spooling problem. What I needed was simply more stall at the low end. That is all I was concerned with for the time being. I was not concerned with top end performance at all. I was only concerned with finding a proper spool up and launch for the car, or just to find out if it was possible at all with this turbo. As Otto has pointed out, this S510 was a major hurdle. One that has been conquered, luckily.
This interim TC didn't have to be anything fancy. All I needed was more stall on the low end. That's it. I was given the opportunity to pick up a TC at a good price, so I went with it. I knew this TC would most likely not fit the bill for the top end, but at that point in my development, that was certainly not my main concern. The main target was to see if the S510 would work out or not.

I do plan to work with this TC when I'm much closer to the final tune just to see what another TC manufacturer can do. Then, we'll have a good chance to do a very good comparison between this TC and one from Dusty so that we can provide some good documentation on the differences with Dusty's.

Now, please, can we stop talking about TCs. It's just not the right time yet. I hope I've made that clearer for some of you.

 

[John Wilde]

Don,

If I would have known you just wanted stall, I think I have an 8 inch Art Carr that would have worked for you.

 

[Alky V6]

Don,

If I would have known you just wanted stall, I think I have an 8 inch Art Carr that would have worked for you.

Way too loose. I still wanted to be in the ballpark. I was only looking for around 3200 rpm stall off the nitrous, which is what this TC provided me.
In fact, the low end and spooling performance of this TC is just about perfect. I hope Dusty is able to match it, while improving the top end. I'm guessing we'll be looking at 6 months before I'm ready to look at the TC again. So lets not get too anxious with the TC talk just yet.

 

[Alky V6]

Let's call this the end to this thread. I'm worried this thread might be distracting from others that are posting new bests with their cars.
New bests are an important thing.

 

[geno]

That was a very fair answer. I know that it appears that I am shoving this down your throat, but I am just trying to help you understand the controller better. Unfortunatly, I can't convey my "casual tone" when typing. I would think that you would want to know "why" the numbers are working for you and why you could change them a bunch and not have any effect on your actual boost going down the track. If you prefer for me to drop this discussion, I will since I now sound like my 4th grade teacher :tongue:

Hell i bought my AMS 1000 from you and flew you up here and never got this much tec support LOL:biggrin: Cal ive never seen you get so worked up Highly entertaining
I need a bag of Cheetos (Wait i better get pop corn this time) LOL

 

[Otto J]

Hell i bought my AMS 1000 from you and flew you up here and never got this much tec support LOL:biggrin: Cal ive never seen you get so worked up Highly entertaining
I need a bag of Cheetos (Wait i better get pop corn this time) LOL

Watch the Chloresterol old man

 

[BadAssGN]

Congrats on the 8 second Slip Don


Looking forward to more video and Drama :biggrin:

 

[cold85]

I have a little fuel for the fire, I have read many post on this board over the years and I have my flame suit on, but I think many turbo buick owners over complicate their combos to much with trying stuff on paper and not on the track or dyno.
With that being said I spool that turbo easy with a 352ci (I know is way bigger) with ease. I run the 88mm BW unit and have run a 4.99 with it so maybe you should try it before the 91mm. I have also run the 91mm at one race and it is the time in my sig. Even the 88mm BW will run 5.80's with 4-5lbs of boost (I forgot to turn on the ams1000). I just think a smaller turbo may be a better fit

 

[Alky V6]

I have a little fuel for the fire, I have read many post on this board over the years and I have my flame suit on, but I think many turbo buick owners over complicate their combos to much with trying stuff on paper and not on the track or dyno.
With that being said I spool that turbo easy with a 352ci (I know is way bigger) with ease. I run the 88mm BW unit and have run a 4.99 with it so maybe you should try it before the 91mm. I have also run the 91mm at one race and it is the time in my sig. Even the 88mm BW will run 5.80's with 4-5lbs of boost (I forgot to turn on the ams1000). I just think a smaller turbo may be a better fit

You won't get any flaming from me. It isn't anything I haven't been hearing for years.
Are you running the S510 frame or smaller?

 

[cold85]

You won't get any flaming from me. It isn't anything I haven't been hearing for years.
Are you running the S510 frame or smaller?

same frame. I have also ran the 86mm and ran 5.00's with it.

Almost all of my runs are at 3350 and on 275 radials.
I only ran the 91mm at one race in sgmp and I had trans problems but I think i could get into the 4.80's with it all day long once sorted out. what boost levels have you seen with the 91?

 

[Alky V6]

same frame. I have also ran the 86mm and ran 5.00's with it.

Almost all of my runs are at 3350 and on 275 radials.
I only ran the 91mm at one race in sgmp and I had trans problems but I think i could get into the 4.80's with it all day long once sorted out. what boost levels have you seen with the 91?

So far, I've only gone as far as my fuel supply system could take me. About 31-32 psi (3 bar map sensor).
I'm upgrading the fuel system and adding a 4 bar map sensor this year. After that, I plan on taking it as high as the chassis will allow. The engine is setup to take 40-45 psi, which would be a walk in the park for this turbo.

 

[cold85]

So far, I've only gone as far as my fuel supply system could take me. About 31-32 psi (3 bar map sensor).
I'm upgrading the fuel system and adding a 4 bar map sensor this year. After that, I plan on taking it as high as the chassis will allow. The engine is setup to take 40-45 psi, which would be a walk in the park for this turbo.

I am in the same boat that is about all I have seen with the 3 bar. I will have more races next year with a bigger turbo

 

[Alky V6]

Latest new bests with the car after fixing some problems with the fuel supply that I found.
5.57 @ 126 mph in the 1/8 mile.
1.277 60'
3.629 330'
315 kPa MAP (31 psi) ramped in by the end of the 1/8.
On the ALS for 1.7 seconds, and off the ALS before launching.
Launch rpm and map were 5100, 142 kPa.

With the discovery of some problems with the fuel delivery and fixing them, the fuel table is shaping up in such a way that I may be able to squeeze 38 psi boost out of this existing fuel system before reaching the limit on the electronic injector duty cycle.

YIPPEE!!

 

[charlief1]

Your 60' is looking better and better Donnie. What do you think she'll do in the quarter now?

 

[Alky V6]

Your 60' is looking better and better Donnie. What do you think she'll do in the quarter now?

I'm figuring the 8.60s at this 31 psi boost level. The next time out with the car I'll be slowly cranking up the boost to see how she reacts. I'm sure the tires are going to start limiting my 1/8 mile testing. It should be interesting.

 

[charlief1]

I'm figuring the 8.60s at this 31 psi boost level. The next time out with the car I'll be slowly cranking up the boost to see how she reacts. I'm sure the tires are going to start limiting my 1/8 mile testing. It should be interesting.

Cool Donnie. Now get that thing on scales and see where she's sitting so we can get you squared away on the percentages.:biggrin:

 

[Alky V6]

Update on TC slip number

I finally got the drag sim to match real world results almost perfectly. Trying to get the horsepower curve and torque converter parameters right has been the hard part. Well, all the MPHs and RPMs are matching time slip and datalog numbers very, very closely. Launch, RPM drops for both shifts, and finish line RPM are also matching.
The TC slip number at the finish calculated out to be 12 percent using a tire growth number of 3%.
Current peak bhp level is calculated to be 1175. More power was being put into the run right after the shift into second than I thought before, so it brought down the overall peak bhp level for the run. Still, not bad for 31 psi, with still up to maybe 38 psi still on tap.

 

[Alky V6]

Now that the sim is more tightly matched to real world, I can change parameters to see what the result might end up being.
One parameter that is giving good gains is a change to a low first gearset for the transmission. A switch to a 2.74:1 first gear ratio over the present 2.48:1. A gain of 2 hundredths across the board. Doesn't sound like much, but at this level, and without any change in any other parameter, including HP, it's significant.
I'm going to stick with the 3.73 gearset.