Hey guys, i'm finally upgrading my stock turbo to a te44. I was going to leave my stock converter in but found a nice 3000 LU converter for a decent price. I know the recommended is 2800, would the 3000 really be to much to put behind that te44? This car is a mostly street driven car.
3000 Converter for te44?
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I ran a TE 44 for years with a stock D5 converter and it worked great. I had a friend who had a 2800 RPM converter with a TE 44 turbo and his car would spin really easy if you wasn't very careful. We both had the same builds other than the converter. His 60ft and mine were identical.
jasjamz
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I'll will be fun! Do it!
the 3000 stall won't be to much.i ran a 3200 10.5 lockup on a ta49 down to 11.1 with a 1.55 60ft on drag radials.had a friend of mine run a 3400 on a 49 he went 1.49 60ft but ended up at 11.40.on another car we run it currently has a 3200 stall 10.5 on a 49 unopened motor,car runs real good.
mikestertwo
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It's a little much for your build. A 2600-2800LU is more in line.
I know it'll help it at the track a lot, my concerns were as I stated that this car is mostly a street driven car and I drive it back an forth to work at 70mph down the highway. So How is it going to act on the street?
SCOOBY DOO
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gnloyalty8777
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You'll like it on the street. I ran a 3200 when i had a 44 and was really fun on the street and i had a similar build to yours at the time.
Dusty Bradford
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No. With a lock-up converter your cruise rpm will be the same as stock.
2urbov6
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I had the same question. I just put in a 49 on the car and the tranny build, but now I was going to ask what converter to go with my tranny. i have a L/U tranny I was looking at a 10 with a 3000 stall
TurboTnZ06
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3000 L/U is perfect for a TE44. You'll love it on the street, I know I did.
i ran a te44 with two different converters, a 12 inch 3000 l/u and a 10 inch 3000 l/u, stall speed of 2800 to 3000 will be great fun and wont feel loose, the important thing to me is are u talking a 12 inch restalled d5 or a 10 inch converter? why? it makes a HUGE difference going to a smaller, lighter, quicker responding converter so get the 10 inch one, my car felt so much better like night and day, response off idle cruising then matt it and wham, it was awsome compared to the 12 in cannon ball on your crank feeling. less heat in the trans also cause its more efficient, also read about something called MOI or moment of inertia, its all about rotating mass and weight, and physics, my car even idles better with about 12 lbs off the crank also, its worth the extra money when u talk converters, thats why every one likes the little 9.5 ones for strip use the are even more efficient and couple better, the big price tag just makes it hurt so good... lol....good luck
Dusty Bradford
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The reason it felt so different from the 12" 3000 to the 10" 3000 was because the 12" wasn't really a 3000 stall. Sure the weight helps when accelerating. Anything off the crank is a benefit. But your 12" was probably a 2200-2400 stall. People can call a 12" stall a 3000 all they want but it doesn't mean it actually stalls that high. There is a huge mis-understanding of how a turbo converter works and the stall speed is the most confusing part. We've all been given bad info and have been working with that for the last 20 years. lol.
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Dusty has been a real godsend to the turbo Buick community in helping develop converters specifically for our use in providing better performance and reliability.
Coming from the V-8 world into the area of turbo applications there is a BIG difference in definition and application when defining and discussing stall speed of converters. As Dusty stated, "there is a huge misunderstanding" of how it works in a turbo application, and how stall speed is really defined.
There are MANY variables that make choosing a stall speed for a specific application, and I have come to appreciate Dusty's method of comparing converter stall speed by checking it at 0 boost on the brake.
Application, use, engine HP, car weight, tires, street or track surface, turbo and other factors all affect stall speed for a specific application.
I the early years of building a race car, it could take up to 5 or 6 converters, or stall changes, for it to give good results. Through the years we did get smarter and gain more knowledge and could get an optimum converter in 2 or 3 changes. Now we can get very close the first time, or maybe only one change.
In this thread, I see most responses have used and recommend a 3000 stall with a 12" converter. This agrees with our early findings with a 44/49 turbo as well. What we also found from the companies that built converters was that with a stock D-5 converter, the max stall possible was 3000. Using Dusty's method of checking stall, it is actually like he said, 2200-2400 stall.
So this will confirm that all the replies here from 2600 to 3000 stall are actually correct! :biggrin:
Dusty and I have discussed converter selection in the past, and on thing we agree on is that most owners are "afraid" of too much stall because of the numbers that are thrown out for discussion, and many of them do NOT reflect actual stall, but what an advertised number.
The converter in my race car was purchased as a 4500-5000 stall. At 0 boost, it is at 3000 stall, and if I launch at 3800, it leaves at 8-10 psi. Here is the BIG difference, when I used a 3800 stall prior to this converter, I had traction problems leaving the line. The added slip of the 5000 stall and it allows to boost to build much faster for better times off the line.
Now many of you are street/strip owners and not primarily concerned about track performance, but this is very applicable on the street where traction is not as good. A higher stall will give you better starting traction, and if you have a LU converter, you still have good cruise efficiency.
Hope I have not been boring, but will add some info that will help in our understanding of torque converters.
"A torque converter has three stages of operation:
Stall. The prime mover is applying power to the impeller but the turbine cannot rotate. For example, in an automobile, this stage of operation would occur when the driver has placed the transmission in gear but is preventing the vehicle from moving by continuing to apply the brakes. At stall, the torque converter can produce maximum torque multiplication if sufficient input power is applied (the resulting multiplication is called the stall ratio). The stall phase actually lasts for a brief period when the load (e.g., vehicle) initially starts to move, as there will be a very large difference between pump and turbine speed.
Acceleration. The load is accelerating but there still is a relatively large difference between impeller and turbine speed. Under this condition, the converter will produce torque multiplication that is less than what could be achieved under stall conditions. The amount of multiplication will depend upon the actual difference between pump and turbine speed, as well as various other design factors.
Coupling. The turbine has reached approximately 90 percent of the speed of the impeller. Torque multiplication has essentially ceased and the torque converter is behaving in a manner similar to a simple fluid coupling. In modern automotive applications, it is usually at this stage of operation where the lock-up clutch is applied, a procedure that tends to improve fuel efficiency."
Dusty Bradford
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That's a good explanation Nick.
The 0-1# boost stall number is what we all need to be looking at. Not what the builder said it would stall, but the actual stall speed. There are many variables that effect stall speed of the converter both up high and down low. I can build a converter that stalls 2800 in 95% of the cars on this board but there will be some that will stall higher or lower depending on these variables.
When someone calls and tells me their 3400 stall converter won't spool a 6765, the first thing I ask is about the 0-1# stall. This is the stall we are concerned about when trying to spool a turbo. That converter may stall 3400 rpm but it may take 4psi or even 7psi to push the stall speed that high. The 0-1# stall number is what tells us if it will spool a turbo, given it's combination.
A 2600-3000 stall will spool a TE-44 on a stock motor. Higher the stall, quicker spool and will give up slip in high gear. The goal is to run the least amount of stall required to spool the turbo. This will increase efficiency in high gear.
The 0-1# boost stall number is what we all need to be looking at. Not what the builder said it would stall, but the actual stall speed. There are many variables that effect stall speed of the converter both up high and down low. I can build a converter that stalls 2800 in 95% of the cars on this board but there will be some that will stall higher or lower depending on these variables.
When someone calls and tells me their 3400 stall converter won't spool a 6765, the first thing I ask is about the 0-1# stall. This is the stall we are concerned about when trying to spool a turbo. That converter may stall 3400 rpm but it may take 4psi or even 7psi to push the stall speed that high. The 0-1# stall number is what tells us if it will spool a turbo, given it's combination.
A 2600-3000 stall will spool a TE-44 on a stock motor. Higher the stall, quicker spool and will give up slip in high gear. The goal is to run the least amount of stall required to spool the turbo. This will increase efficiency in high gear.
