Hi!! I haved read the forums for about 3 months now.I just purchased my first Buick.It is a 73,000 mile 1986 GN.I have some extra money to spend but I am really new to the turbo world.The guy I bought it from didn't know much either.I have figured out it has the Pit bull exhaust ,30lbers,Manual boost control,Walbro fuel pump,shift kit,and 3:42 gears.My best 1/8 mile time with ET Streets,100 octane,21 psi and a very sad 2.39 60 foot was 8.39 at 89 mph without any boost from the line(off idle).My question is with around $800 to spend what would be the best investment for the track, a front mount intercooler or a stall convertor?? I was told I have a larger turbo by some guy who looked under my hood.But as i said before I am new to the turbo Buick world.How do you tell what size turbo you have.Mine has #ers on it and it is a Garret but thats all I know.Help a new Buick guy out fellows!!!!!
$800 Front mount or 9/11 ???
- Thread starter MillersV6
- Start date
I'd say frontmount, but I'm guessing I'm in the minority here (and I'm sure Woody will chime in, too 
). There are three things you can do that really make a difference in the seat of the pants and the timeslip: good flowing heads, big turbo, and frontmount. Each of these can be worth .5 sec and 5 mph over the stock pieces, at constant octane and proper tuning. Assuming you already have a bigger than stock turbo, the frontmount is the next easiest bolton. I've seen several cars, including my own, pick up 0.5 sec and 5 mph in the 1/4 mile just by going from a bigneck stock intercooler to a frontmount (V2, PTE, or Cotton - they are all very close in performance so shop price, looks, availability used, etc.). If your poor 60's are from slow turbo spoolup the converter might make as much difference as the frontmount in et, but after the first 60' and on the highway the frontmount wins . If what you really want is a lower et in dragstrip trim, you might be better off spending the money on a pair of rims and slicks, plus an airbag for the right rear spring, plus a driveshaft loop. Getting that 2.39 down to something like 1.80 would cut .75 seconds off your 1/4 mile et.
). There are three things you can do that really make a difference in the seat of the pants and the timeslip: good flowing heads, big turbo, and frontmount. Each of these can be worth .5 sec and 5 mph over the stock pieces, at constant octane and proper tuning. Assuming you already have a bigger than stock turbo, the frontmount is the next easiest bolton. I've seen several cars, including my own, pick up 0.5 sec and 5 mph in the 1/4 mile just by going from a bigneck stock intercooler to a frontmount (V2, PTE, or Cotton - they are all very close in performance so shop price, looks, availability used, etc.). If your poor 60's are from slow turbo spoolup the converter might make as much difference as the frontmount in et, but after the first 60' and on the highway the frontmount wins . If what you really want is a lower et in dragstrip trim, you might be better off spending the money on a pair of rims and slicks, plus an airbag for the right rear spring, plus a driveshaft loop. Getting that 2.39 down to something like 1.80 would cut .75 seconds off your 1/4 mile et.- Joined
- Nov 24, 2001
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/turboguide/turboguide.html
i wouldnt buy a convertor till you find out what turbo you do have-
id spend the money on brakes , slicks, and some rear suspension components to make the car leave harder-
i wouldnt buy a convertor till you find out what turbo you do have-
id spend the money on brakes , slicks, and some rear suspension components to make the car leave harder-
I was using a wore out pair of 26-10.5-15 ET Streets, but now I am using a full slick 28-10.5-15.I am going to the Street fights at Bristol Tenn., if it don't rain Thursday and try it in the 1/4 mile.I do have traction issues and thursday nite track prep isn't the best in the world.
I had a te-60 on my car with an orange stripe converter. Put the art carr 9" on and it was instantly a different car. I also felt a big improvement with the FM intercooler, but between the 2 I would go with a converter first.
But before you do anything, go through and do the spring cleaning. I'm sure someone will post the link if you need it.
It'll make sure everthing is in order before you start upgrading.
HTH, John
But before you do anything, go through and do the spring cleaning. I'm sure someone will post the link if you need it.
It'll make sure everthing is in order before you start upgrading.
HTH, John
Well I'm a hardcore believer in intercoolers, but you have a glaring problem with that 60' time. I think you could probably make alot of improvement there with out spending very much cash at all. Try to get a procedure down for launching the car. Then change one thing at a time too see what helps and what hurts you. Ill give you some info on what I do and maybe you can pick up a thing or to that you may want to try. Also keep in mind some guys are yanking some damn good 60' times on stock convertors( i personaly run a 9" n/l though)
1. Start with around 12 to 14 psi in your slicks.
2. unhook or totally remove your front sway bar
3. put an air bag in the drivers side rear spring($50) w/ around 20 to 25 psi in it.
4. Dont do a john force burn out. Pull through the water box and do your burn out out of the water. Do your burny with the car locked in 2nd gear get the tires spinning and count 1 thousand 1 one thousand two....till you get to 4, then let up and roll out.
5. try launching at 5psi and go up from there. 5 psi w/ slicks should be absolutely no problem at all.
6. watch your fueling, if your to rich on the bottom end your spool will come on too slow after you launch. Also dont floor the car when your trying to build up launch boost. If you dont floor it you shouldnt go into fuel enrichment mode. This will help keep it a little leaner and will help you build boost easier.
7. dont build your launch boost and just hold it there. have your boost climbing when you let it go. basically have your turbo already in excelerate mode when you cut it loose. You dont need big boost to launch hard, you need the turbo excelerating to launch hard.
8. If you cant hold atleast 10psi of boost then get some brakes. s10 wheel cylinders new shoes ect.
Try this stuff if you like it may help you. I sixty in the 1.4's with 9" slicks leaving off the foot brake at 8 to 10 psi. This is in my 3600# TTA with 3.25 gears. If you get some good 60's with this set up then look into other mods than a convertor. Look into alky injection, a power plate, and then a stretch IC or a front mount.
BTW...I think 89mph in the 1/8th at only 21 psi is pretty decent. Couple more pounds of boost should get you into the low 90's and with a decent to good launch that should mean 100 teens in the quarter and high/mid 11 seconds.
Good luck: Jason
1. Start with around 12 to 14 psi in your slicks.
2. unhook or totally remove your front sway bar
3. put an air bag in the drivers side rear spring($50) w/ around 20 to 25 psi in it.
4. Dont do a john force burn out. Pull through the water box and do your burn out out of the water. Do your burny with the car locked in 2nd gear get the tires spinning and count 1 thousand 1 one thousand two....till you get to 4, then let up and roll out.
5. try launching at 5psi and go up from there. 5 psi w/ slicks should be absolutely no problem at all.
6. watch your fueling, if your to rich on the bottom end your spool will come on too slow after you launch. Also dont floor the car when your trying to build up launch boost. If you dont floor it you shouldnt go into fuel enrichment mode. This will help keep it a little leaner and will help you build boost easier.
7. dont build your launch boost and just hold it there. have your boost climbing when you let it go. basically have your turbo already in excelerate mode when you cut it loose. You dont need big boost to launch hard, you need the turbo excelerating to launch hard.
8. If you cant hold atleast 10psi of boost then get some brakes. s10 wheel cylinders new shoes ect.
Try this stuff if you like it may help you. I sixty in the 1.4's with 9" slicks leaving off the foot brake at 8 to 10 psi. This is in my 3600# TTA with 3.25 gears. If you get some good 60's with this set up then look into other mods than a convertor. Look into alky injection, a power plate, and then a stretch IC or a front mount.
BTW...I think 89mph in the 1/8th at only 21 psi is pretty decent. Couple more pounds of boost should get you into the low 90's and with a decent to good launch that should mean 100 teens in the quarter and high/mid 11 seconds.
Good luck: Jason
I can say from experience the last two are right on. Only reason I cant say heads is because mine are bone stock
. Now I think a convertor only makes you faster for a short time. Thats when your first coming up to you set boost level. Once your there a high stahl conv will actualy hurt you. Unless its a lock up style and you run it locked at WOT. Good heads or good IC is going to make you faster the full length of the track. A big turbo is going to be the oposite of the conv. Its going to slow you down getting to set boost, but once your there its going to make you faster. Maybe thats why they work good together because they help cover up each others flaws. A loose conv will really make the car alot more fun to drive on the street though................ so few dollars and so many neat parts to buy...........F' it buy $800 worth of loto tickets and go for broke.HTH: Jason
Ok with a terrible 60 like yours the last thing you want to do is ADD wheelspin, and that's what a converter does for you, it lets you open up more power in the 60'...you need to get your 60' time down BEFORE you add more torque at the line...on the other hand with a really bad 60' you need to make up as much as possible at the far end of the track...between the two choices give I'd go Front mount...if it was my car i'd spend my money on suspension and getting my pinion angle right so I can launch with so boost baby...if you get it hooking then think about a converter...Although I like running people down so I'd go Front mount with a little suspension and go from there.
Front mount made a nice difference in mine but who knows how bad my stocker was..Id like to have a converter but doubt that it would really pic me up that much for the money..I leave off of 5lbs of boost & with M/T's sportsman pros & have like 1.70's 60ft..something is def wrong on your 60 ft..I think I can do better than that with no boost launch easy..Find that problem & then go from there..but any intercooler upgrade I think will help more than any converter unless you just have a way oversized turbo for your stocker converter..
Brian
Brian
equalizer442
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2002
i like my precision front mount
btw what would be a good stal for a te44 .80 a/r? 3000? and how much am i looking at spending?
btw what would be a good stal for a te44 .80 a/r? 3000? and how much am i looking at spending?
My vote is for the converter. If I can get 1.9-2.0 60' times on BFG Radial TA's with a bone stock suspension, he should be able to get better than 2.3x even with worn out ET-Streets. I am sure some suspension/brake work is in order, but I am guessing the converter is just way too low of a stall for the unknown turbo that is in the car.
We really need to know more info about what was going on through first gear to help you accurately though. What RPM does the converter stall up to? Was there alot of turbo lag? Did you spin? How much boost will the brakes hold?
All this info will help you spend your money to go faster and not just make someone richer
We really need to know more info about what was going on through first gear to help you accurately though. What RPM does the converter stall up to? Was there alot of turbo lag? Did you spin? How much boost will the brakes hold?
All this info will help you spend your money to go faster and not just make someone richer
Originally posted by ijames
I'd say frontmount, but I'm guessing I'm in the minority here (and I'm sure Woody will chime in, too
I never regretted buying mine, V-2, and have never had overheating problems. I would think you should do a little more investigating into your car and exactly what you do have before you let that $$$$ burn a hole in your pocket though...
turbodave231
Moderator
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
1. Spring Cleaning
2. Line Lock
3. Air Bags and KYB rear Shocks
3. Shift kit and billet servo (for tranny durability)
4. Slicks and Rims
With these small changes you can realistically expect to pull 1.7 to 1.6 60' times. This will equate to a huge 1/4 mile ET drop and it will make your car fun!!!!
2. Line Lock
3. Air Bags and KYB rear Shocks
3. Shift kit and billet servo (for tranny durability)
4. Slicks and Rims
With these small changes you can realistically expect to pull 1.7 to 1.6 60' times. This will equate to a huge 1/4 mile ET drop and it will make your car fun!!!!
