83 Regal into Turbo

[Mr. Upholsterer]

smokin the Buick

Hey thanks..I will try to nab a 80 or 81 turbo manifold in the mean time.
Went to my "friendly" local machine shop the other day...they wanted to charge me $100. just to drill 8 holes in a piece of aluminum...What are we talking here a half an hour..I told them to forget it.. Everybody seems to be trying to rip you off as much as they can.... I know the owner of this machine shop...hes a millionare too..

 

[justin84]

Hey thanks..I will try to nab a 80 or 81 turbo manifold in the mean time.
Went to my "friendly" local machine shop the other day...they wanted to charge me $100. just to drill 8 holes in a piece of aluminum...What are we talking here a half an hour..I told them to forget it.. Everybody seems to be trying to rip you off as much as they can.... I know the owner of this machine shop...hes a millionare too..

I'm a machinist and if you we're having holes drilled then there is set-up time and fixture time/tooling. You also have to consider that maybe they we're busy? We're these holes getting tapped?

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Smoking the buick

I use to be the chief inspector of of machinists work.. In a governmet sub-contractor facility...I know about set-up time ....I could do the job myself within an hour..Not to mention I did a lot of work for the owner and only charged him 1/3 of what I should of charged him..

 

[charlief1]

Hey thanks..I will try to nab a 80 or 81 turbo manifold in the mean time.
Went to my "friendly" local machine shop the other day...they wanted to charge me $100. just to drill 8 holes in a piece of aluminum...What are we talking here a half an hour..I told them to forget it.. Everybody seems to be trying to rip you off as much as they can.... I know the owner of this machine shop...hes a millionare too..

Check out Eddco machine near me. He's a car and gun guy and he likes what I've been doing. He's offered me the mods for the inducer housing for $100 and shipping may be a pain but he's interested so he may do it for less than the guy you've been dealing with, shipping as well.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

smokin the Buick

Well guys the more books I read the more confused I get.. The first turbo book I read...about 20 years old said that the draw thru method was the only way to get real power... Just started reading a Book called Maximum Boost by Corky Bell published 1997 ok....dont shoot the messanger ....
" The draw thru system is prone to icing at temperatures below 50 degrees.
The Blow- through system has better throttle response and cold starting, reduced emissions, and permits the use of an intercooler."
" Weighting the merits, there is virtually no reason to build a draw-through system unless one lives in a year round hot climate and never indends to produce serious power."
Well, I will keep on reading, just getting to the section on carbs, courious to see how to stop the carb from turning into a sprinkler system..
And I'm reading, and reading......

 

[charlief1]

Blow through is a little more difficult because you have to fab everything up as well as figure out your fuel curve. The factory did the draw though as a compromise for the time. Look at the technology of the time versus now. There were many different designs out there but turbos were as exotic as fuel injection which was done mostly on race cars and exotics. Now it's common.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

the book Maximum Boost is very biased aganst draw thru.

most of the data I have was collected from lost of long boring chats with engineers from Accel, RotoMaster, Rajay, and Shelby/Spearco.

those are the drawthru experts.

A.j.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Smokin the Buick

AH....that's what I like to hear...Was Corky right when he said you couldn't drive the car if it was below 50 degrees outside with a draw-through?? I do Live in PA in a Ski Resort area...:smile:

 

[charlief1]

If he was then Buick built a car that can't be used in the winter and then it woouldn't sell, right?

 

[MNcarbturbo]

I dont have any issues with mine running in the winter. It didnt start one morning but that was due to -25 weather, a dead battery and my carb that wont hold fuel. When it runs it doenst care if its 80 or -30. Just bogs due to a poorly adjusted choke pull off.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Smokin the Buick

I guess once I get this turbo installed I will need some sort of Air/Fuel mixture ?/ Now...I deep sixed the computer in this 83 Regal...I do have an oxygen sensor in the orginal exhaust manifold (I think) the light is always red on the dash...service engine .. Is there a way I can install the oxygen sensor in the new exhaust manifold and then just run that wire directly to a new Air/Fuel mixture guage...off the top of my head I would just think different sensors would have different voltage outputs so how would the guage know what the range is of the sensor??
Or does the guage take for granite that you have a comuter it can plug into.??
Then there is the boost guage too..

 

[charlief1]

You really want to get the puter working right before you do any other mods. It will control the timing and the air/fuel mixture to keep the car running right. If you don't have it working to protect the engine from detonation then you have to find a turbo control center off a 78-79 car and I wish you luck with that. I've been trying to find a good one for a few years now.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I guess once I get this turbo installed I will need some sort of Air/Fuel mixture ?/ Now...I deep sixed the computer in this 83 Regal...I do have an oxygen sensor in the orginal exhaust manifold (I think) the light is always red on the dash...service engine .. Is there a way I can install the oxygen sensor in the new exhaust manifold and then just run that wire directly to a new Air/Fuel mixture guage...off the top of my head I would just think different sensors would have different voltage outputs so how would the guage know what the range is of the sensor??
Or does the guage take for granite that you have a comuter it can plug into.??
Then there is the boost guage too..

just buy yourself an after market wide band Air fuel meter. run about 350 from summit.

do the same for the boost gauge.

A.j.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Smokin the Buick

Does anybody know the actual voltage range of the Oxygen sensor in the 83 If I knew this then I could find a guage that would work with it... I hear that some are wide band and some are a narrow band.. I would imagine that the guage that moniters it would have to know that ...unless there is an adjustment on the back of the guage for the different oxygen sensors.. Seems to mee that having a air/ fuel guage would be a given with at turbo..
Also I have been reading that some people say a knock sensor is great and other people saying that it is a waste of time because usually by the time you hear it, it is usually too late...and that a noisy lifter or stones hitting the motor can set it off causing your car to run way retarted..

 

[charlief1]

The factory one is a narrow band and won't give you all the info you want.

You need some sort of knock sensor info just to be safe. It may not keep you from killing the engine but there are aftermarket systems you can get that will work. You have to know your car and how it behaves before anything else.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Smokin the Buick

How would you go into a parts store and get a sensor with a wide band..?? I'm sure the parts guy wouldn't know what I am talking about.. they just know make, model, year and engine size.. Does it have anything to do with the number of wires comming out of it?? Like a 4 wire sensor verses a 3 wire sensor??
I am sure once this car gets running that I will have to do a lot of playing with those jets on the holley to get the right fuel/ air ratio.. From what I have been reading, its going to be all over the place, with huge holes. Like there is going places in the rpm band where it goes so lean the guage could hardly read it... too much reading I guess....Have a new turbo book comming...3rd one now..probably just more confusion if you know what I mean..
My old Pontiac had a big problem with knock and ping..13.5 to 1 It would only run on Sunnuco 260 with water injection...so I know what to listen for as far as knock goes..

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I reckon you should just buy a complete turbo motor and be done with it.

your going way tooo deep into the theory and such..... over thinking is what leads to disaster.

just pay attention to the combos we have been throwing at you on the other post, everything you need to know is there.

take it one step at a time, and solve the issues as they come.

start with the new intake, clean it up and get all of the gaskets you need, then drop your turbo on...

have you got turbo manifolds? up and down pipes? a cross over? ESC box and dizzy?

there are miles to go before worrying about a wide band air fuel meter.

A.j.

 

[WarWagon]

Good thoughts A.j I agree

heads up on oxygen sensors:
Wire count dictates a heated sensor or not that's all.
Nothing OEM came with a wideband sensor ever.
You need a controller period! to get any benefit out of a wideband, that's why they are always sold together as a kit.

 

[Mr. Upholsterer]

Smokin the Buick

Doc, thanks for grounding me...your sending me the turbo manifold right..and I have the exhaust pipes. Still need the spark box, and what is a dizzy?? Normally my main job is just upholstery / body work.. But on the Upholstery I really push the limit on everthing..and try to keep up with the latest things going on in the field..
I do have a vacumn distributor...but what I have been reading is that it should be a mechanical advance...is that right??
Did anybody ever hear of a Garrett SST (Single-Sequential Turbo) uses2 Siamesed compressor wheels formed into one wheel casting, driven by a common turbine shaft. Its like double your pleasure double your fun...
Oh yes...I was going for my engineering certification just before I lost my job..
Had a chance to get a 87 GN engine and trans...didn't want it...Want to take this puppy where its never been..:wink:

 

[charlief1]

Stop over thinking it. The only way to start is with the factory system and go from there. Just like Aj, Adam, and myself have. Aj and Adam went a different way and I'm sticking with a modified stock system for now. I may change the idea later but I want the stock system to be able to prove a point.

As far as a dizzy, Aj means distributor. The early design used a seperate controler to reduce timing if detonation occured. It's called a turbo control center and there extremely hard to find. If you do a search look for the bugeyed sprite thread. I posted a link to an alternative that you can make yourself.