83's, XP pump=E-85 = enough fuel@ WOT

[ronbuick]

Need some help here, I'm thinking that 83's and a single hot wired XP pump
is not enough fuel @ WOT to run in the vicininty of 115-117mph on E-85, using Eric's E-85 chip, true or false?? or do I need a dbl. pumper???
All help and input needed. thanks.

Ron

 

[bsdlinux]

You should not need a dumper pumper. Plenty of people running a single pump and maxing the 83s with stock fuel rails. Anything bigger than that in regards to injectors... time to upgrade pumps and fuel lines as far as I'm concerned.

I'm using an intank Kirban replacement which flows 57 gallons per hour at 70 psi. Now if you have what they call the Red's XP plus it is basically the same as a Walbro 340 which will give you comparable numbers to my pump. These pumps get you into the high to mid 10s fairly easily with stock rails. When using E-85, you'd be looking low 11's before you get into trouble.... sorry I'm not a guru in this area.

HTH

 

[ronbuick]

I do have a hood mounted fuel press. gauge, and it does not drop off at 70 psi @ WOT with 25lbs. and a base fuel press. of 45llbs, actually I wll see about 72-73lbs at the fuel gauge, but I have been told that a single will not handle 83's at WOT, I have a Dequick stock location and a PT-52 turbo and a set of mildly ported heads so I'm moving some air, just want to be sure I have the fuel to go with the air with straight E-85-E90 in that area.

Ron

 

[Underboost]

Just some info.

with 60lb motrons and a walbro 340 11.30's

with 72lb Siemens and One XP pump 10.12 @ 134mph

Now I have 83lb Siemens, Cell, Weldon Pump, AN lines etc.

So the 83's and an XP pump should be fine.

 

[ronbuick]

Under, you are using E-85 also??

Ron

 

[bsdlinux]

Ron,

To be quite honest I used to hear the same thing about a single pump being not enough to max out 83s. My understanding is that on a fuel system in good shape, hot wire, good filter it will work and work well. Obviously though we are getting close to the edge, I would never even think about running anything bigger than 83s without modifications throughout the fuel system.

Plenty of myths on this board. I went and talked to my local guru ( tunes plenty of Turbo cars including TRs )and he said that statement was crap. Been there done that. We don't call him Mr. King for nothing

You have all the tools you need to verify operation.

Under's numbers are in line what I know and I have been told. Just remember that with E-85 you'll have to come back 30% and your setup should get you low 11s before problems occur. I see you have alky so right there is your wiggle room and probably high 10s if you wanted it with that setup.

For argument sake: There is a restriction in the stock rail at the fitting. You can whack that off and weld another fiiting on there or use a champion rail.

The Black Car will get bigger injectors than 83s and I'll upgrade the lines, pump and everything at that point.

 

[Underboost]

Under, you are using E-85 also??

Ron

No Ron I'm sorry, I should have said that. I was just giving you an idea of what I have done with C16. I'm sure there is a formula you can use to figure out the amount per gal. of E-85 to gal. of C16 being used.

 

[bsdlinux]

No Ron I'm sorry, I should have said that. I was just giving you an idea of what I have done with C16. I'm sure there is a formula you can use to figure out the amount per gal. of E-85 to gal. of C16 being used.

Rule of thumb... take injector PW and multiply by 1.3 when going from Gas to E-85, this should get you in the ballpark and a starting point of reference.. of course I'm talking WOT here

I see Ron's signature says he has ALKY, that should give him 10-15% more fuel if he needs it.

Anyways I believe Ron is moving away from the E-85 setup and doing something else.

 

[87GN_70GS]

If you're seeing 70+ psi at WOT, then you're not running 100% duty cycle with your 83#'ers. There's no way a single pump will deliver enough fuel for 83's at 100% dc. Check the test data in the chart in this thread . The test data doesn't support it (83# are the leftmost inj curves, top of the page). However, if you're running less than 100% duty cycle, then yes, a single pump might be ok. The question is, how much more headroom do you have switching to E85? It would be helpful to run a scan tool that can disply duty cycle to see where you're at. A 30% increase in dc may work for you or might be the straw...

 

[tom j]

I would think that the pump has nothing to do with the pusle width in the way that you are describing it. If the the dc% is 100% and you are running lean it could be that the ecm is trying to richen it up by increasing the dc% because the pump isn't keeping up. I agree with in saying a single pump wont get the full potential out of 100% dc%. IMO

 

[Pablo]

I would think that the pump has nothing to do with the pusle width in the way that you are describing it. If the the dc% is 100% and you are running lean it could be that the ecm is trying to richen it up by increasing the dc% because the pump isn't keeping up. I agree with in saying a single pump wont get the full potential out of 100% dc%. IMO

It won't do that unless you have a system that runs closed loop wideband correction at WOT. Otherwise the WOT inj p.w. is just a preprogrammed parameter that is based upon MAF (if you have an extender) readings and to a lesser extent based upon other parameters like coolant temp, time at WOT, etc.

BTW you never want to run an injector even approaching 100% DC, they get erratic as they are pushed to their limits. The general consensus among injector gurus is to keep it under 85% DC to be safe.

I agree that an easy way to boost your mph potential if your fuel system is limiting you is an external alky kit. Fill it with E85 to keep it simple. With a single M15 nozzle ive run 96.5 in the 1/8th (converter unlocked) with 72s at 65% DC iirc. Thats with methanol too which has a much richer stoichiometric afr than E85. With twin M15s pumping e85 youd need even MUCH less injector.
The low DC due to the extra fuel (methanol from my kit) gives me plenty of room to grow, especially now that ive added a second M15 nozzle. I haven't even looked to see what my D.C. is but its probably way low now after tuning + wb correction.

The only problem is that with the alky kit then you've introduced a separate variable which kind of takes away the simplicity and street consistency that running e85 would provide (if you aren't careful about highway cruising evaporating your primed alky lines if you arent running solenoids, I'm always sure to prime my system in situations where I know I've likely evaporated my primed methanol)