Advice on crate long-block (Jasper, etc..)

[bragggf]

I'm the original owner of an '87 TR and have racked up 300,000 miles on the original motor, turbo, etc.. (no, the trans did not make it..) I still use the car as my daily driver from spring till winter. However, with the miles racking up and oil leaks not improving I'd like to do the motor before something goes amiss.

Unless I can be persuaded otherwise my preference is to put the original motor in storage and install a crate long-block from Jaspers or other source. Primary reasons are..
1. less downtime (weekend project)
2. will allow me the time to plan and save$$ for the buildup of the original short/longblock.
3. I can get a Japser long-block at cost, approx $2000. Core charge is $185 which I'll keep. Cost is a concern right now since most of my $$$ goes to feed my twin boys.

Comments, suggestions, experiences? I did verify with a friend who lives in Jasper, IN that the GN motors are built "off-line" by hand in their race shop using GN cores (turbo heads, block, etc...)

Was concerned that they may use a Hyperectic piston but was told by jasper rep that they are a reproduction of the deep skirt stock cast piston.

Anyways, stock is not bad in my book if I got 300k out of it and can still run in the low 13's @16lbs boost.

Appreciate any inights. sorry for the long post.

 

[UNGN]

"turbo heads, block, etc." are the same as Normally aspirated heads, block etc. so yeah, he was telling you the truth even if he didn't use a GN core.

You want to make sure it has a "Rolled Fillet crank". NA cranks are not rolled fillet and it would suck if the crank snapped when you turned up the boost. I bet they don't put a rolled fillet crank in.

It sounds like your car is a driver and you can probably get away with hypeutectics. If you wanted to go to the track and turn up the boost, I would say to go forged pistons as the hypers will start to melt when you run high boost. Stock cast pistons melt too, but the steel sleeve keeps them from becoming structurally compromised when they get toasty.

 

[Red Regal T]

I THINK AUTOZONE SELLS LONG BLOCKS FOR A LOT LESS MONEY THAN $2000. THERE'S ANOTHER OUTFIT REMANUFACTURING TURBO MOTORS HTK..... OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. FRIEND OF MINE BOUGHT ONE DOWN HERE FROM DISCOUNT AUTO PARTS FOR AROUND $1200. HEARD ONE GUY BOLTED ONE IN AND HAS HIS CAR RUNNING 10S. CHECK IT OUT BEFORE YOU SPEND TOO MUCH......

 

[turbot2112]

i got a jasper short block 2 or 3 years ago and its still going strong. i not sure about the crank but i guess ill find out soon because i will be going to yhe track soon and will be running high boost. good luck

 

[mark p. liner]

i have a jasper engine in my car also. i was very concerned about the quality of the replacement engine i would use. so i called many bulders and chose jasper.thay use oem specifications, and thay assured me of this.i talked to everyone i could at jasper reps, tecs, anyone whom i could get ahold of. and i was totally convinced jasper was the way to go for me. plus you get a three year warranty or 75,000
miles. not only do thay replace the parts thay cover the labor cost. however it does not cover abuse, so if you burn a hole in the piston from over boost you will be s.o.l. its hard to get a warranty like that, and you will never get it at autozone, nor the quality.i worked at autozone part time for eight months and had many,many engines and transmissions come back!and its only a one year warranty and you eat the labor.but this is not about autozone vs jasper i just wanted to say i am very pleased with my engine, and what my experiences were. hay turbot2112 are you a RUSH fan, thay rule

 

[turbot2112]

yea, i am, and there gonna be playin by me july 11. cant wait, its been too long.

 

[FlyinGN]

I think they are called ATK, John.. I saw em in Autozone too..
Heres the web site.. $1600 for the turbo engine delivered to your
front door
http://www.atk-engines.com/

Originally posted by Red Regal T
I THINK AUTOZONE SELLS LONG BLOCKS FOR A LOT LESS MONEY THAN $2000. THERE'S ANOTHER OUTFIT REMANUFACTURING TURBO MOTORS HTK..... OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. FRIEND OF MINE BOUGHT ONE DOWN HERE FROM DISCOUNT AUTO PARTS FOR AROUND $1200. HEARD ONE GUY BOLTED ONE IN AND HAS HIS CAR RUNNING 10S. CHECK IT OUT BEFORE YOU SPEND TOO MUCH......

 

[mark p. liner]

turbot2112, your sooo lucky, i just hope thay come my way. at least we got some new stuff.

 

[GNSCOTT]

I called 3 companies a couple years back, and none had the rolled fillet crank. Remember, its not just the motor that can go when the crank goes, turbos don't like chunks of cranks either.

 

[86brick]

So couldn't you just use the new replacement block if it's the same as the 109 and get a turbo (rolled fillets) crank??? If the heads they use in these new replacement motors are the same they can also be used I assume??? I'm curious as to why nobody other than a couple of guys are using these new replacement motors when it's time for a rebuild Please give me some info.

 

[Red Regal T]

CHECKED WITH MY FRIEND TONITE. HE PAID $1200 FOR THE ATK WHICH INCLUDED THE CORE CHARGE. HE SAID HE CHECKED WITH JASPERS AND THEY WANTED $3000 AND DIDN'T EVEN HAVE ANY AND WANTED HIM TO SEND HIS MOTOR SO THEY COULD REBUILD IT.

 

[FJM568]

If you pull the motor apart to put in a turbo rolled fillet crank, your warranty goes out the window...They put a seal across all gasketed parts(block-to-oil pan, block-to-head, etc..at least on the ones I've seen at the salvage yards, and the motor in my Toyota 4x4 that I bought with the new motor in there)...If the seals are broken then no warranty...

 

[blackbuick87]

Mine is currently running a Jaspers long block with 15000 on it no problem. We will find out how it holds when I get my alky kit and crank up the boost. The previous owner did the engine so I cannot comment on cost

 

[bragggf]

stock pistons/cranks/cost

Was quoted $2,600 retail for a long block. Sending in your own motor costs more since their core charge is only $185 and they need to track "your" motor thru the build process. I will pay the core and store my original motor. Cost to rebuild the original motor properly would likely be $4,000. Going the jasper route for now allows me the time to reduce downtime, save some cash, and eventually have a proper rebuild of my stocker performed. If I had the time and money then it's a no brainer, find a quality builder and do the original motor.

I was told by Jasper that they use cast pistons which are a re-production of the factory piston, not hyper's (which they use in othe motors). If I want something different was told that they would do it. Pesonally I want an OEM style piston; if their cast is not a "turbo" piston then I'll get them from the GSCA. If I got 300k and 100 passes at the track with the stockers then they are fine in my book. GM engineers will tell you that the turbo piston was the strongest piston ever produced by GM, withstanding 300 hours of continuous detonation on an engine dyno. Forgings would withstand 30 hours. Belive this has to do with the reinforcement of the ring land. For my intended RPM range (<5200) and boost levels (<23psi) a heavy stock piston will work well. Jasper balances the assembly (well they say they do) so any piston/pin combo could be used, whether it be JE, Weisco, Arias, TRW, ....

I need to ask about the crank and if not rolled fillet will need to source one. Since they are providing the intake/plenum setup then must have some GN cores out their. Assume the oil filter setup has the fittings for the cooler lines, which were specific to the GN. Also wondering how they match the pump gears and front cover for proper clearances.

appreaciate all of the comments, suggestions folks have provided.

==========
-Gerry Bragg
Brighton, MI
gerry.bragg@altarum.org

 

[ijames]

Friends at a local shop have used a few Jasper crate motors in customers cars and are happy so far (these are all basically stockers, not racers). I think you have to pay about $100 extra to "guarrantee" you'll get a rolled fillet crank, and the same to make sure no sleeves and bored no more than 0.030. I think they offer forged pistons as an upgrade, and a 206 cam as well. On most of their motors the install kit is well worth it, and I think it is for the TR's as well. This comes with all hoses, belts, etc., and these might be required for the warranty. I'm pretty sure they also require either a new radiator or at least a new oil cooler (save that receipt!) or the warranty is void (not sure how they feel about flushing/cleaning the turbo). Make sure to read all the fine print. The good part is that every one has fired right up and had good oil pressure - you can quibble about parts but apparently not about the workmanship .

 

[gnxtc2]

You could also try Ron's Custom Auto. I know you will get a rolled fillet crank, center 2 billet caps, choice of cam, choice of heads, modified oil system, and other items.

Also I believe he uses Diamond Pistons.

The problem with the engine manufacturers is that they will do anything to get that motor sold. Bore the block .060 over, go .040 under on the crank, maybe sleeve the cyclinder.

If it was me, you have the motor out and do it right the first time.

Give them a call, you have nothing to loose.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[FJM568]

The stock style reproduction cast piston are not exact copies...I had a set in my first motor...I did not notice the top steel insert that makes up the top ring land on them like the ones in the pics on www.gnttype.org of the stockers...Mine did have the steel inserts at the pins and the drip lands to oil the pins and a full skirt, but the only difference that I noticed was the lack of the top steel insert that makes up the top ring land on the stockers was not there on the replacement pistons...

As for the intake/plenum setup...I think you are going to have to reuse yours...I don't think the engine remanufacturers(Jasper's, ATK, Reman, etc) sell any engines complete(intakes, sensors, distributors, etc)...They are sold either as long blocks or short blocks...you just need to move your intake/plenum and all sensors and accessories/brackets from your old motor to the new long block...BUT that is what I've always been told, never have bought a reman'd motor before...

 

[Crazi]

ATK...

I was at the point of ordering an ATK engine but then asked the valid questions about crank, pistons, overbore etc. The guy couldn't answer the questions nor could I talk to the warranty people.

I guess I am back to saving for my full rebuild. Would have been $1729 to my door...Too good to be true.

 

[frankg]

Remember to some extent you get what you pay for. Do it right the first time and save some $$ and headache in the long run!!! Frank

 

[Crazi]

Yeah I told myself that after they couldn't answer my questions. So what, I can't drive it this season. At least when I do, I won't worry if I ever get the chance to make that low 11 pass.

Frank, I will be in touch.