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SignUp Now!Sorry a bit off topic but are those Centerline Competition Eliminator wheels? If so, what size? I almost ordered a set but backed out because I wasn't sure how they'd look on the car. I shouldn't have... they look sharp!Yeah its been awhile so I almost forgot how it use to drive. I remember it used to almost "float". Its a lot stiffer now. View attachment 278988
Thank you, yes they're Centerline Eliminators 17x9.5 in back, 17x8 up front.Sorry a bit off topic but are those Centerline Competition Eliminator wheels? If so, what size? I almost ordered a set but backed out because I wasn't sure how they'd look on the car. I shouldn't have... they look sharp!
You can develop edge wear issues on the front tires.So with the caster that much higher than factory specs would there be any negative effects on the suspension, steering or treadwear?
So with the caster that much higher than factory specs would there be any negative effects on the suspension, steering or treadwear?
See thats exactly what i thought, tire wear would mostly be caused from a camber or toe issue. But see im still kinda concerned about that caster # being in the 6* range. In my research the last few days that caster # is the highest ive seen. I hope thats not a bad thing.I had always heard that it was toe / camber that caused edge wear. Now if I butcher any of these terms, then please forgive me. Because a technician I am not, as I am merely an enthusiast seeking knowledge myself. Point being is that I may be wrong here, however, from what I can gather, tire wear is affected in this order:
1) Toe – is the most important alignment angle as it shows how Parallel the front wheels are and the angle could be:
a) Zero Toe - meaning the edges of the tires are theoretically aligned;
b) Toe In – the front edge of the tires are closer together and the rear edge is closer together.
c) Toe Out – the front edges of the tires are farther apart and the rear edge is closer together. Each vehicle being somewhat different and requiring a certain amount of Toe. For example, a lifted Jeep with over-sized tires actually calls for the front edges of the tires to Toe In (so they are aimed at each other slightly). This is due to the stress and subsequent stretch of the front end components that highway speeds can exert on them. This is especially true of one with Big Tires. In that, the negative Toe / Toe In will actually open up at highway speeds thereby allowing the Jeep to end up having a perfect amount of Toe while on the road at speed.
2) Camber – refers to the tilt or angle of the wheels when you are facing the vehicle. The best example I can give here is the Tuner Car Image below with all four wheels leaned in so far that I don’t know they drive it!
3) Caster – is the forward (negative) or rearward (positive) tilt of the steering axis (as viewed from the side of the car). Caster only applies to the front wheels as they are the only ones that steer. Which is why Caster is sort of an oddball, as its greatest effect is steering stability, steering effort, etc. So that often makes it the most ignored as well, since it does not directly affect tire wear, per say.
Well the steering didnt seem to wander but im sure its much better than it was originally cause before the alignment i put in an astro van steering shaft. Ill call UMI tomm see what they think.Forgot to add the image earlier! But, this is camber gone awry!!
Caster has a lot to do with steering, stability and tracking. So is the car wandering at all? Or does the steering feel unresponsive?
With your uppers being adjustable you would think that the technician could get it as close to perfect as possible. Although that could be part of the design element too? In that, they may have intentionally added more caster for improved steering or something? Who knows? However, you might consider emailing UMI to see what they think about your alignment specs? I'd be curious to see what they had to say about it though that's for sure, as I plan on running some tubular arms myself. So if you do email them, please post up what they say?
Thanks!!
Spelling Edit!
Toe and camber are the primary wear angles but charlief1 is right about the caster wear in this case. Depending on tire width amd driving habbits caster can and will cause edge wear due to the significant amount of camber change when the wheels are turned due to the high caster. Other than that there are not really any drawbacks as long as you don't experience any bump steer, etc. I personally like high caster in all my vehicles. I even have one side of my diesel pickup at 5 degrees. I prefer the tight feel.
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You don't need to explain alignment measurements to me lol. I worked for the company that makes the alignment equipment (Hunter Engineering Company). There's nothing to debate you are correct. It is not a direct wear in and of itself if the car were going straight down the road all the time. But that isn't the case because in the real world the cars take turns. No matter how you slice it 2 cars all else being equal and driven enthusiastically one with 3 degrees caster one with 7, the one with 7 will present with more edge wear from camber change during cornering and turning. Yes its the instantaneous camber (only when wheels are turned) causing the wear.....but its the caster causing the camber. Call it what you want.Not to disagree with either of you. However, I'm not so sure that isn't one of those common misconceptions about steering geometry. Because the caster is the negative or positive angle of the front wheels axis.
Although I am not disputing what you are saying. Since what you are saying is true. It is just that if you really think about, "Caster" in and of itself does not "Directly" affect edge wear. To illustrate that fact, I would to your quote. As I feel as though you were spot on when you said, "edge wear due to the significant amount of camber change when the wheels are turned due to the high caster."
The key phrase there being "Camber Change". So thats why I feel as though "Caster" (in and of itself) is not the direct cause of edge wear! In that, it is a result of a "Camber Change", just as you had suggested.
Anyways I see both of your point and I'm not disagreeing with you. As I'm merely attempting to suggest that edge wear is not a direct result of Caster alone.
You don't need to explain alignment measurements to me lol. I worked for the company that makes the alignment equipment (Hunter Engineering Company). There's nothing to debate you are correct. It is not a direct wear in and of itself if the car were going straight down the road all the time. But that isn't the case because in the real world the cars take turns. No matter how you slice it 2 cars all else being equal and driven enthusiastically one with 3 degrees caster one with 7, the one with 7 will present with more edge wear from camber change during cornering and turning. Yes its the instantaneous camber (only when wheels are turned) causing the wear.....but its the caster causing the camber. Call it what you want.
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Sorry man no offense taken. I probably read a little to far into your use of the word "misconception" lol.I understand and I see your point! And I mean no disrespect nor offense to anyone by saying any of that. So I apologize if I came across as being an ass! As you guys obviously have far more experience with our cars than I do. And it sounds like you would have a far better understanding than I do anyways.
What basic understanding I do have comes from being a Jeep fan anyways, as I've tinkered with them for years. And I learned about bump steer the hard way. Only when you get "bump steer" in a Jeep it's called the dreaded "Death Wobble" and the first time it happened to me, I was on a divided four lane interstate (grassy median in the middle) and this is no joke I stopped traffic on both sides when it happened to me! It must have been crazy looking because they all stopped!! True story!!!
So after my heart started beating again I made a trip to the local hospital to get the drivers seat of my Jeep removed from my backside (where my butt had puckered so bad it sucked the seat in with it). And I decided right then and there that I would figure out all I could about all of that.
So sorry! As my ADHD, OCD, literal sense just took over! Lol!
And again my apologies, as I meant no offense!