Alky Rules

[Razor]

i think it would just open up a can of worms to let hybrids in the tai class....why dont we let the guys who actually show up for the class agree on the rules

+1

 

[Grumpy]

Why dont we let the guys who actually show up for the class agree on the rules

So only guys that raced at the last event @ Reynolds will set the rules ??

Ok Julio time for us to have a shootout!! Mustang vs Mazda !! ummm .. you will have to wait of course till it's running

 

[Alky V6]

First someone says the TAI class has no rules. Then, everyone is coming up with a rule idea.
Now you want to wait 'till people show up to make the rules. Yeah. I'll gladly drive cross country for that. Nevermind.

 

[Slow91z]

First someone says the TAI class has no rules. Then, everyone is coming up with a rule idea.
Now you want to wait 'till people show up to make the rules. Yeah. I'll gladly drive cross country for that. Nevermind.

1st off...there are rules, just not many.

2nd I doubt anyone is suggesting we wait until the race, I think they are implying that the people that have raced in the past should help with the decisions.

 

[jasjamz]

I don't see why you'd have to be a previous racer in the class to make a decision or offer a suggestion. I did not expect the class to have as many low ten, high nine second cars as it did. I surely didnt start out that way. It makes it cool to watch, but tougher to compete due to it being heads up. Adding more rules at this point would cut out some and attract others. Problem is, you can't say if you'd gain more or lose more.

 

[Razor]

1st off...there are rules, just not many.

2nd I doubt anyone is suggesting we wait until the race, I think they are implying that the people that have raced in the past should help with the decisions.

Correct. There are rules.

The bending has been on tires.. if the participants dont mind a car having slicks.. that is up to the racers to make that call. Another up to racers is the protree/sportsman tree.

Fastest car doesnt always win. I can remember when it ever has in this class.

Thing for sure is the fillup with 93, weight, alky kit, and 109 motor.

 

[TURBO 6]

I don't see why you'd have to be a previous racer in the class to make a decision or offer a suggestion.

Racers support the class. (Which I haven't been doing lately)

 

[Grumpy]

Racers support the class. (Which I haven't been doing lately)

a lot of us haven't BUT are still interested in the class ..

 

[imjoesnuffy]

Correct. There are rules.

Thing for sure is the fillup with 93, weight, alky kit, and 109 motor.

Would a hot air block be allowed in the class?

 

[Razor]

Would a hot air block be allowed in the class?

Yes, I wouldnt see a reason not too. I know the 109 rule stuff, but that 109 rule is more intended to keep the Stage motors out of this class. Maybe we need to change the rules for production blocks only.

Then someone says GM produced the Stage blocks :redface:

Actually I dont know how all you feel about the 4.1 production blocks to be allowed in the class. Not 4.1 stage stuff.

 

[Grumpy]

Then someone says GM produced the Stage blocks :redface:

Actually I dont know how all you feel about the 4.1 production blocks to be allowed in the class. Not 4.1 stage stuff.

GM didn't make that block ??? I think as long as it looks stock it should be fine :biggrin:

 

[pacecarta]

if you allow stroker 109s which im sure no one has objections to then why not 4.1s
i would say you could just limit to 250ci like tsm does but seing as how this isnt a class running 8s trying to slow the cars down for safety why have a CI limit ,
should be if its a 'buick' v6 and its on 93 and alky ..run it

and yes the 1/8mile TAI event in NC might be doable for me next year
better yet bring it to cecil and ill make two next year

 

[Razor]

if you allow stroker 109s which im sure no one has objections to then why not 4.1s
i would say you could just limit to 250ci like tsm does but seing as how this isnt a class running 8s trying to slow the cars down for safety why have a CI limit ,
should be if its a 'buick' v6 and its on 93 and alky ..run it

and yes the 1/8mile TAI event in NC might be doable for me next year
better yet bring it to cecil and ill make two next year

Wouldnt Buick V6 also encompass the StageII stuff?

I dont want any CI limit as there is no way to police it. I guess I just dont want any 274ci stageII engines in the class. Even tho you can stroke a 4.1 production to that number.

Example get a combo like Fiscus and drop the boost to 15 PSI. That would walk away with a class likethis.

 

[snyderjw1]

Julio...I can't seem to find the original rules you guys were all using...I know someone posted them somewhere...but they are two or three years old..would it be worth posting an "official" set of rules for 2010, even if they are minimal? that way we all have the time to make what changes (if any) we need to? It seems like the block, tire size/type, turbo, weights, and body types are the very minimum that need to be nailed down...this is what I remember seeing:

109 block
any 10.5 tire (actual)
3400 iron, 3550 aluminum
75mm turbo
regal or tta body type
and last but not least .... must take 10 gal. of 93 on race day with witnesses:smile:

 

[Grumpy]

109 block
any 10.5 tire (actual)
3400 iron, 3550 aluminum
75mm turbo
regal or tta body type
and last but not least .... must take 10 gal. of 93 on race day with witnesses:smile:

that about sums it up from what I remember. like I said.. basically no rules except for a 109 block. I would like to see the weights pushed up as this was a street car class.. Not a stripped out car weighin 3400#s.. How do ya get a car @ 3200 #s (then add a guys weight 201#s) Rules were kept like this to get the car count up.
Hopefully the tanked economy comes back so guys can get back out.

 

[jasjamz]

I have never been on a scale but I'm 215lbs, my car is a T Top car, no cage, steel bumper reinforcements, 2 batteries, 3 amps, 2 12" subs and all the A/C stuff. Nothing light about it at all. True street car IMO. Now for me to race a 3400lb car head up is almost a joke.

But I'm giong to try to make it to the class in BG anyway. I just better bring a big stick. I just could find the time to get the car there.

 

[jasjamz]

Julio...I can't seem to find the original rules you guys were all using...I know someone posted them somewhere...but they are two or three years old..


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2006 Turbo/Alcohol Injection Class Rules – T/A
Official 01-09-06

Race Class Objectives

The GSCA would like to see the return of a reasonable, grassroots, regular-guy shootout of legitimate street driven Turbo Buick or Pontiac Turbo Tran-Am cars. This race class is being developed to show the potential/benefits that alcohol injection systems when used with 92/93 octane unleaded premium pump gas can have when installed on a Buick Turbo Regal, Grand National/GNX or Pontiac Turbo Trans-Am.
*This race class is being run on a trial basis for the 2006 GS Nationals only.

What Can I Win

An award will be presented to the entrant that post the most consistent e.t. based on a three (3) run average of the three (3) quarter-mile passes. Awards will also be given to the entrant(s) who posts the quickest quarter-mile elapsed time (e.t.) and fastest quarter-mile mile-per-hour trap speed. In the event of a tie in average e.t., average mph will be used as a tie-breaker.

General Rules

· Unleaded 92/93 octane pump gasoline fuel only, no nitrous oxide injection, no additives i.e. xzylene, nitro-propane, nitro-methane, propylene oxide, etc. are allowed.
· Any street driven 1984, 1985, 1986 or 1987 Buick Turbo Regal, Grand National/GNX or 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans-Am powered by a General Motors production turbo charged Buick V6 engine, (cylinder block casting number(s) 25520040, 25520329 or 25526109 only) and equipped with a functioning alcohol injection system are eligible to enter.
· ***All vehicles depending on the year of manufacture must use the factory stock ignition system.
· All cars racing in the Turbo Heads-Up racing classes must be owned and driven by a current member of the GSCA.
· Helmet required, cars must pass track safety tech inspection.
· Cars should possess all applicable safety equipment for potential ET/speeds attained.
· No peer technical inspections relating to safety equipment rules by class participants or peers, Beech Bend Raceway track safety technician personnel will make all rulings on track safety equipment related items.
· Complete factory stock appearing, painted Buick Turbo Regal, Grand National/GNX or Pontiac Turbo Trans-Am body is required, no non-factory hood scoop, rear spoiler, wheelie bars or parachute.
· Minimum car weight w/driver must be at least 3,450lbs.
· Required street-legal equipment: all 4 working headlights, taillights, brake lights, turn signals, horn, windshield wipers and safety-glass windows.
· Full stock appearing interior required, race seats are allowed only if seats are painted and upholstered to match the factory interior and should be attached to the rear crossbar of the roll cage if so equipped.
· All factory heater and A/C equipment must be in place and functional.
· Any transmission shifter allowed, any additional aftermarket gauges allowed.
· Stock ECM, modified stock ECM or aftermarket fuel management systems allowed, (DFI, FAST, Motec, etc).
· Factory Stock Appearing (Type I or Type II) DIS cam position sensor is required for cars produced in the years 1986, 1987 and 1989.
· No individual coil per spark plug ignitions allowed.
· Any MAF sensor is acceptable. All intake air must pass through & be measured by the MAF sensor.
· Any fuel injectors allowed, 6 maximum.
· Factory stock fuel tank required, addition of a fuel tank sump is allowed.
· No auxiliary or trunk mounted dual fuel systems are allowed. The gasoline fuel source must come from the stock location fuel tank only.
· Alcohol injection system injection point must be plumbed into the air intake system “up-pipe” only on 1986, 1987 and 1989 built cars.
· Any stock location or front mount air to air intercooler is allowed.
· No liquid intercoolers, intercooler external spray cooling or add-on cold boxes allowed.
· Any diameter downpipe size from the turbo is allowed. Downpipe must be routed down through the stock location, no flex pipe allowed.
· Any single or dual exhaust system allowed, it must muffle & exit at the stock location(s). All exhaust gases released from the engine must pass through muffler(s) at all times. Cars may not be uncorked in any way during competition.
· Any matched set of four (4), 15” or 16” diameter chrome steel or aluminum wheels allowed.
· Rear drag slicks w/sidewall designation up to and including 28.0” x 10.5” –15” and 28.0” x 10.0” -16”. No "W" tires allowed. Rear DOT street tires w/sidewall designation up to and including a 29.5” x 12.5” –15” or (275/60-15 M/T) and 28.0” x 12.5” –16” size tires are allowed. Drag Radials are also allowed.
· Drive shaft safety loop required.
· Automated brakes or any type of traction control is prohibited. Application and release of brakes must be a function of the driver's foot. Line loc permitted.
· Racing aids such as optical sensors, delay boxes, stutter boxes, and throttle stops are not allowed. The application or use of any device, mechanical or electronic that permits the driver to ascertain the position of their vehicle in relation to the starting line is prohibited.
· Winner(s) are subject to re-tech immediately after final pass or at any other time.
· Any entrant caught trying to deliberately break the rules will be disqualified.
· Cars entered in the Turbo Alcohol (T/A) class are also eligible and may register to race in the bracket classes on Saturday.

Pre-Race Technical Inspection Requirements/Instructions

All pre-registered entrant’s cars shall assemble as a group to be tech inspected based on the General Rules established above. The technical inspection location shall be at the GS Nationals host hotel parking lot on Thursday, May 18, 2006 beginning at 9:00 am and ending at 10:30 am. Entrant’s cars must arrive at tech inspection with the gasoline fuel tank at or near empty. Each entrant’s fuel tank must be able to accommodate a minimum of 10 gallons of 92/93 octane pump gas during the filling procedure. ***NOTE: Each entrant’s gasoline fuel tank must not contain ANY leaded racing fuel or additives such as xzylene, ect! See Race Day Format below. After the tech inspection, under the supervision of the Turbo/Alcohol Injection Class Tech Inspector all cars will be driven as a group or in groups to a designated gas station where each entrant’s fuel tank will be fueled with 92/93 octane unleaded premium pump gasoline at the entrant’s expense. After the tech inspection and fueling, entrants are free to proceed to the track and make as many quarter-mile passes as necessary to tune their cars prior to the first of the three (3) officially timed quarter-mile passes to be held on Friday evening, May 19th. ***NOTE: NO ADDITONAL GASOLINE FUEL MAY BE ADDED OR REMOVED FROM THE CAR’S FUEL SYSTEM BY ANY MEANS AFTER BEING FUELED AT THE TECH INSPECTION.


Race Day Event Technical Inspection Requirements/Instructions

Prior to the first round pass, all Turbo/Alcohol Injection Class entrants will assemble in the Beech Bend circle track staging lanes for a brief drivers meeting; each entrant’s alcohol injection system reservoir must be completely drained of all contents. At that time, the Turbo/Alcohol Injection Class Tech Inspection Director will witness each entrant fill their reservoir with alcohol i.e., methanol, isopropyl, denatured, etc. from a commercially available, marked, un-opened/sealed alcohol container. Alcohol injection system pump lubricant from a commercially marked, un-opened/sealed container may also be added at this time if needed. After the reservoir is filled, no further additions will be permitted during the three (3) round quarter-mile passes. All cars must return directly to the circle track staging lanes after each pass. Failure to do so will result in disqualification from the event.

Race Day Format

Dragstrip race format will be random pairings of side-by-side runs on a sportsman tree. Driver lane choice will not be allowed. The Event Race Director reserves the right to conduct single-lane passes in the event of a condition that prevents the use of one lane. Following the completion of each run, competitors must return immediately and directly to the circle track staging lanes until three passes are complete and after their final pass. Entrants unable to complete three passes will be listed as DNF and any entrant returning to their pit before the end of the event will be disqualified.

WARNING: ***Gasoline and alcohol fuel samples will be taken at random from entrant’s fuel system during the timed runs and from the three top award winners and runner-up at the conclusion of the timed third pass. These samples will be analyzed for lead content and octane rating. Any entrant’s gasoline sample found to contain lead or have an octane rating that is above rule specifications will be disqualified and will forfeit all awards.

 

[Alky V6]

I think you could have saved some ink if you just stated,

"Bone stock GN with an alcohol kit".

That sure is grass roots. More like sand before the grass seed. It appears someone doesn't want others modifying their car.
If someone really wants to see what can be done with an alky kit on a bone stock GN, they need to be doing that research themself and not force a whole racing class to do that testing for them. The class sounds more like an alky kit manufacturers track test session. Is one manufacturer trying to do a tightly controlled comparison testing of one particular unit against another? And using other peoples cars to do that research for them?

There needs to be more room for individual creativity. That sounds more grass roots to me. Grass roots to me means, "RUN WHAT YA BRUNG!" Lets race!

Spectators, and I'm a true blue racing spectator, like to go to the track to see what people have come up with on their own to make their car faster. How do you advance the world of aux alky injection by putting such tight restrictions on what one can do to the car? I for one would not be very interested in going to a track to check out a bunch of stock GNs with alky kits. Isn't the object to expand interest in these cars? Or, just in the alky kits?

 

[Razor]

The class is open to any injection kit. You can have 9 windshield washer pumps on 9 hobbs switches squirting acetone, hydrogen peroxide, methanol, chlorine, nitro and do whatever you want. The purpose is to try and extract the maximum performance out of pump fuel on these cars. Purely and simply the rules are to try and keep high dollar large cube engines out of the program. IE Stage II's. The weight is a no brainer..

This is not a class you need to have my system on the car. Look at BG last year Randy from KY had a DIY kit and his car was the number 1 qualifier.

Rules are there to try and level the field, this class really has the least and allows creativity, imagination, etc. Looking at other Buick classes which disallow a simple fender trim, disallow changing the orientation of the turbo, etc, etc..

Fun racing, makes the injection stuff show its potential. If a car has my kit on it.. wonderful and thank you to the person. If it doesnt, its all good.

 

[Alky V6]

I have to say that I was a little surprised by the rule about needing to have a complete and functional heating and air conditioning system. These cars are getting a bit old and some may not have the need or extra resources to fix a failed A/C system. I guess only collectable or well maintained vehicles are allowed?