all in favor of a breakout rule at Noble.

[JDSfastGN]

I'm proposing a breakout rule. Somewhere between .5-.75 seconds. Anybody that plans on continuing to go to Noble or that was there this year make a post (so i can actually submit a petition with names) and vote in the poll at the top. I will find a way to get this to the event organizers. If there are people that you know that don't visit the board often then let them know about this. I don't think that the organizers realize that they are going to hurt the events attendance in the long run as nobody wants to drive from all over the country to get sandbagged by over 2 seconds. I believe that a .5 or .75 second rule would allow for temp changes, tuning issues and traction issues that may get solved in the few hours of downtime we have. Thanks guys

 

[TKGN1]

I'm glad this came up, I'm for it. I think this will make it honest for both sides of the camp.

 

[RachesFastT]

Hey yall this is JDs girlfriend. I plan on racing next year and I definitely have to say that there has to be some kind of breakout rule. That was ridiculous that they qualify with a 14.5 and you miraculously make up a whole 2 seconds.

Thats my 2 cents!

 

[russgoodman]

Yes yes yes. Its getting ridiculous, I think we may never win again unless something gives. I was in the third group, qualified with a 13.26, and the mustang I ran against ran a 12.4 ish. I mean come the f-on. I posted this in another thread too, but I talked to a ford guy who was even bitchin about his own "team" and sandbagging. He had a 16 sec powerstroke and got outran by a low 12 mustang.

 

[blown okie]

i am glad this thread is happening, i just hope it gets put into action

 

[8urV8]

Guys need to change something!!!

I saw most of the fords run during qualifying and there was alot of sandbagging going on and they ran all out when they needed to at the end.

 

[Quiky One]

They need one. I lost by .65 which was quite a bit faster then his qualifying pass.

Jason

 

[Black Power]

I for one do not think a sandbagging rule will help us at all.

The fact is, they are consistently showing up with faster cars than we are. If we make them run all out in the qualifying passes they are still going to smash us in the eliminations because they are bringing more fast cars than we are. The fastest Fords are a second faster than the fastest Buicks we had at the event.

What we need to work on in order to win ANY Ford Buick shootout is this:

1. High car turnout - Lots of Buicks there, we need to take advantage of getting more quick Pontiacs, Olds, GMCs, Caddys, etc. to participate.
2. Bringing faster cars
3. Not red lighting
4. Not breaking (unlike me )
5. Doing our best during qualifying

I talked with Quiky One during the qualifying passes about sandbagging. He has the right idea. If we are sandbagging ourselves, it hurts the team because we put our 12 second cars up against their 14 second cars which is an easy win on our race, but had we qualified all out we push a lot of other cars down the ladder and give them a chance to win.

 

[dwalker]

Team Shootout, Buick vs Ford

Team, this is a 'Challange' race. Headsup racing. We challange them to bring their best to run our best and the one with the most quick cars, wins. You need 51 percent to win. Being sandbagged is always distasteful, but it is not illegal. It can not bring a win for your Team if you have equal cars. If you had equal cars, it would cost your Team the win by altering the ladder. Team Ford brought more cars, and quicker cars to match our offering. Consider this: Ford brought these cars and qualified them to run your cars that did not show- 15.139, 15.304, 15.572, 15.754, 16.373, 16.393, 16.635, 17.534. They had no Team Buick to run. Did we leave our buddies or girlfriends car in the drive or garage that would have made a difference? Change the rules until we can win? No, we want our 51 percent out of the low and middle range where we are the strongest. Something else to consider: Promote a race in Texas with your rules and invite us to race for free and invite us to a BBQ. All of you volunteer to be on the rules committee and enforce them. We enjoy having all of you here to compete with a fierce competitor in Team Ford, but they won by fielding a quicker overall Team. Dick Walker, OKBuicks

 

[JDSfastGN]

yes agree to a point Black Power. Ive been talking to quite a few local guys about going next year. We need another 15-20 "10-11" second buicks to push our slower guys back in line so they match up against a slower ford than what they saw this year.
But its hard to get people to want to go when they hear about sandbagging. They need the breakout rule to keep the buick attendance up. If it pisses off some of the Ford guys, its not as big of a deal. I'm sure they can easily find 20 more in Oklahoma city alone to replace them. But if you start losing Buick turnout, the event will go to hell. You can't just find a large amount of Buicks to replace those that get frustrated. If I lose a race fair and square and was matched up against a faster qualifying car because we didn't bring a fast enough field thats fine. But if their was a breakout rule at least the competition may be a bit closer and there would be more pressure on the Ford drivers to get a good light/60 ft. Most of them know that they have that 150 shot waiting to go and don't even try for a great light because they know they will run down the Buick. But forcing the competition to be a bit closer may create more redlights etc.... I just don't see that there is any downside at all to making a loose breakout rule. The last thing I want is for it to turn into a bracket race lol.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Team, this is a 'Challange' race. Headsup racing. We challange them to bring their best to run our best and the one with the most quick cars, wins. You need 51 percent to win. Being sandbagged is always distasteful, but it is not illegal. It can not bring a win for your Team if you have equal cars. If you had equal cars, it would cost your Team the win by altering the ladder. Team Ford brought more cars, and quicker cars to match our offering. Consider this: Ford brought these cars and qualified them to run your cars that did not show- 15.139, 15.304, 15.572, 15.754, 16.373, 16.393, 16.635, 17.534. They had no Team Buick to run. Did we leave our buddies or girlfriends car in the drive or garage that would have made a difference? Change the rules until we can win? No, we want our 51 percent out of the low and middle range where we are the strongest. Something else to consider: Promote a race in Texas with your rules and invite us to race for free and invite us to a BBQ. All of you volunteer to be on the rules committee and enforce them. We enjoy having all of you here to compete with a fierce competitor in Team Ford, but they won by fielding a quicker overall Team. Dick Walker, OKBuicks

Dick, I'm sorry if the thread came off ungrateful. I love the event and have participated for 5 years in a row now. You are 100% correct that the Buicks need to bring a faster field of cars and we need a higher number. I'm not suggesting changing the rules to where we win. I'm suggesting this rule because it would make the whole event more enjoyable to watch and participate in. If there was a breakout rule of .75 this year and the fords knew it, and qualified closer to what they ran in the finals, we still would have lost. But I can't possibly see one downside to a breakout rule. My suggestion of .75 is pretty damn lenient and still allows for some sandbagging as I know its not just one side that does it. Thanks to the OK guys for hosting the event, i know it isn't easy and I'm really not trying to bash the event in any way. Thanks.

 

[dwalker]

Team Shootout, Buick vs Ford

JD, I am not offended by your wishes, nor do I feel bashed. Team racing is more difficult for individuals. We all want to win our race. I have been a sacrifice car for several years now. It is sad that I have been in the top ten a couple of times with a ten second car. I am happy to have been there, but this shows how shallow our field is. It really would not have mattered if I were 10.0 or 10.9 to my competition, because they were all in the 9s. I "took one" for the Team. Not a noble jesture, but that is were I fell in the ladder. The only thing to change the ladder is more participation with cars capable of average performance, not just the 'fast' cars. You see what we left on the table were below average performers. Back yourself up eight places when the results are published and see who you would have run. If we got there with twenty more cars of average capability we would have dropped off our slowest twelve cars and still moved you back eight places. This is what participation does for the Team. Thanks for being interested in and participating in the Event, we need you. Dick Walker, OKBuicks

 

[TurboToy]

bringing faster cars will not help either. the event is run and then get matched up with the closest to your time am i not correct??? i saw 5 trucks run other fords and then saw the buick wagon go up against a 12.1 mustang... where is the closest match time in this??? we already have guys that will not come out due to the fact that they have stock cars. you look at pinks all out it takes them 8-10 hrs to get to just run everyone 2 times cause they want to run there cars all out not to quilify with a 16 and run a 12. just my .02

turbotoy

 

[8urV8]

Bring in the all Chevy cars,then it will be a race.It would be more exciting.Because then the results are gonna be the same.I really enjoy this event but what other changes can be made?I will bring it for sure next year didn't want to rush the car.Next year more fords will be faster.

 

[TurboToy]

And Then What Bring The Ricers To Help Us Too Lol This Is Buick Vs Ford Not What Ever We Can Invite Vs Ford!! Lol

Turbotoy

 

[blown okie]

Bring in the all Chevy cars,then it will be a race.It would be more exciting.Because then the results are gonna be the same.I really enjoy this event but what other changes can be made?I will bring it for sure next year didn't want to rush the car.Next year more fords will be faster.

i think if more Olds, Pontiac owners knew about the event it woulda helped.. there were several firebirds in attendance but not as many as i had hoped for... we all need to get off our butts & promote this race heavily for next year to all the Olds, Pontiac & LT & LS powered owners. we DO NOT NEED CHEVIES @ THIS RACE!!... i mean come on you can have a chevy engine just not in a chevy car & i think that is stretching the original intent of this race far enough.

 

[sixgun86gn]

I agree with Turbotoy.

If you qualify with a 9.xx you get a ford that qualified with a 9.xx and runs 8's

I had trouble getting my car sorted out so an 11.40 was my best et @ 120mph in quals.

I ran a 10.76 in elims @ 131.69 mph,

My opponent ran a 9.38 @ 144 !!!!!!!

He HAD to qualify in the mid 11's to pair up with me,so the bring a faster car excuse is BS,no disrespect meant.

Why should we hack up more valuable cars and switch to v8's and such to run with their dime a dozen mustangs?

WE ALWAYS RUN AS HARD AS WE CAN.

WE RACE WITH CLASS.....THEY HAVE NONE.

I say,we find another group to race and tell the ford boys to take a hike.

They refuse to run a car that is capable of beating them because they have no BALLS.

I told a Ford guy last year that they would play checkers with retards just so they can win.

We throw a good race and a fun time,just to be disrespected at an event they are invited to.

Thats exactly what it is too,disrespect.

I say F' em and we find a more sportsmanlike group to race with.

 

[turbot2496]

Sorry I wasn't able to participate this year.


I agree with Dick. This event was never meant to be bracket racing.


In the previous example the ford team basically wasted a 9sec car to take out an 11sec car. Stuff such as this helps the buick team in the long run by screwing up their ladder. All things being equal, sandbagging doesn't help the team. In addition, I think alot of the major sandbagging is unintentional. You usually don't get that many qualifiying runs.... sometimes only one if you get there late. Make a bad qualifying run and your stuck with a high qualifying time placing you higher in the ladder and hurting your team. You may win your race but you weakened the team as a whole.

Now, if they just out and out show up with faster cars, then no rule change will help the Buick team be more competitive.

JC

 

[Quik Six]

Guys: You can propose all the rule changes you want but the real answer to this problem is mathematical, we simply need to increase our total number of participants so that we have more cars than the Fords. We were beaten this year because they were ahead by 14 W''s when the first third of the races had been run. They had 8 slow, real slow, cars sitting on the sidelines that our slower cars could have beaten if we had shown up with at least 8 more cars. Win these 8 races and the score is 47 - 47 and I'm certain that some of our other cars would have picked up enough W's running against slower opponents to get us a win with a decent margin of victory. Our strength is in the first 75-80% of the races and we can dominate this area if we have more participation on our side. Every additional 11, 12 or 13 second car on our side makes everyone below them run against a Ford that is one step slower on the ladder.

Sure it sucks to come to this event and be paired with a sandbagger. No body wants to be outdone by a self centered horse's rear but sandbaggers are a reality of this sport and they will always be with us. I believe that they are frowned upon by that part of the Ford community that really support and enjoy this event. I don't recall seeing blatant sandbaggers returning very often.

I have to tell the story of Edie Blanchard and her win at the Shootout which was the highlight of the Shootout fore me. Edie had decided just before the Shootout that she wanted to drive Tracy's car and he was glad that she wanted to do so. She qualified with an 11.33, her personal best, and ended up being matched with a Mustang that Tracy knew was a 9.50 car. She had been coached well and cut a fast light with a great launch, so she jumped out well in front of her opponent. The driver of the Mustang hit it too hard, too fast and blew away the tires almost going into the wall, having to back off and drive. Edie continued to put distance between them and the Ford guy got excited, over peddled the car when he got it straightened out and spun the tires. By this time, she was out of reach, he knew it and drove slowly to the end of the strip. I've known Tracy for nearly 10 years and Edie for about 6, and they were both the most excited that I have ever seen either one of them.

Let's get ready for next year and make sure that we have more cars than they do. If we do that, we can win the event next year without any rule changes.

Phil Engle

 

[JDSfastGN]

really my issue isn't about changing who wins or loses, its already been well established that we didn't bring a fast enough and large enough field. Its the fact that a lenient breakout rule would still bring slightly better matchups and put more pressure on the Ford camp. I don't think most in the stands enjoy watching a 11 sec car beat up on a 14 second car. The whole point of the event is to have good heads up racing and the sandbagging ruins a lot of it. There were quite a few good tight races in there but they were few and far between. With a breakout rule we still would have lost and there still would have been lots of matchups where the buick was a second slower or so. Nobody has listed one good reason that is detrimental to the event as to why there should not be a breakout rule. This does not turn it into a bracket race. .75 is a ton of time, hell .5 is a lot of time. I just don't see a downside at all.