BART-Bay Area Rapid Transit (Police Shooting w/ Video)

[petesgn]

mistake or not that isn't the point. homicide is a homicide accident or not, and someone needs to
be tried for 1st degree murder as well numerous conspiracy charges imho and here's why.

first off I feel bad for the family members who now have the execution of their loved one posted online for the whole world to veiw. Its a point blank range shot, the man is cuffed, the man has got 3+ officers surrounding his immediate personal space, he's got a knee in the back of his head, and he is lying on the ground face down, then he gets shot in the back err? He was struck TWICE by the same bullet because the bullet bounced off the ground and came back up through his lungs, how nice.

no safety on? trigger was already cocked? maybe but i dought all he had to do was pull the trigger and therefore its a 1st degree murder.

I loved hearing the police BRAG on TV that there was NO EVIDENCE of video being taken, lying on record on TV about taking 2 cell phone videos confiskated at the sense of the murder, then lying about the cameras in the subway not working too! Just a few days after this murder 2-3+ videos show up online proving they lied. That's called conspiracy, and that IS WORSE THEN simple 1st degree murder. I hope these facts will not be over looked in the lawsuits. I dont know SF law but I KNOW that there are several different types of conspiracy charges ALONG with the 1st degree murder charge that can and should be brought up with the California Supreme Court.

 

[TURBOTERRORV6]

No one is arguing that the cop screwed up. He resigned two days later. The video pretty much shows that deadly force was not authorized.

If you have never let your frustrations out on the public then you don't work where I and thousands of others work.

It's human nature, it's gonna happen from time to time when your dealing with civilians that are often drunk, ignorant and live in poor drug and gun infested nieghborhoods who have nothing, had nothing and probably never will have anything. They grow up hating the police because most of thier family members freedom was taken away by the police at one time or another.

That might be your view where you worked but where I work it's violent and bottles and bricks tend to hurdled your way sooner then latter during a hostile event. When we are in a hostile situation we contain the suspect ASAP with whatever means we have and put them in the police car and move to a safer location.

That is if we can make it out of the projects without having our windows blown out by rocks or bullets.

If you worked in a little sleepy bedroom town town most people will obey the laws and it won't be an issue. When your work in the ghetto with a bunch of animals those rules don't apply.

Trust me,ive worked in the roughest parts of houston tx and i know FIRSt hand of the GHETTO.. ask me why i know, i was shot in the leg 14 years ago on a attempted liquor store robbery O.P. suspect shot mulitple rounds, was later apprenhended, and charged with A.M..

 

[TURBOTERRORV6]

No one is arguing that the cop screwed up. He resigned two days later. The video pretty much shows that deadly force was not authorized.

If you have never let your frustrations out on the public then you don't work where I and thousands of others work.

It's human nature, it's gonna happen from time to time when your dealing with civilians that are often drunk, ignorant and live in poor drug and gun infested nieghborhoods who have nothing, had nothing and probably never will have anything. They grow up hating the police because most of thier family members freedom was taken away by the police at one time or another.

That might be your view where you worked but where I work it's violent and bottles and bricks tend to hurdled your way sooner then latter during a hostile event. When we are in a hostile situation we contain the suspect ASAP with whatever means we have and put them in the police car and move to a safer location.

That is if we can make it out of the projects without having our windows blown out by rocks or bullets.

If you worked in a little sleepy bedroom town town most people will obey the laws and it won't be an issue. When your work in the ghetto with a bunch of animals those rules don't apply.

let me rephrase what i wrote a couple of minutes ago, never once i let my frustration out on a civilian that did not deserve mis-treatment.

 

[GNBRETT]

Ok.

 

[GNBRETT]

mistake or not that isn't the point. homicide is a homicide accident or not, and someone needs to
be tried for 1st degree murder as well numerous conspiracy charges imho and here's why.

first off I feel bad for the family members who now have the execution of their loved one posted online for the whole world to veiw. Its a point blank range shot, the man is cuffed, the man has got 3+ officers surrounding his immediate personal space, he's got a knee in the back of his head, and he is lying on the ground face down, then he gets shot in the back err? He was struck TWICE by the same bullet because the bullet bounced off the ground and came back up through his lungs, how nice.

no safety on? trigger was already cocked? maybe but i dought all he had to do was pull the trigger and therefore its a 1st degree murder.

I loved hearing the police BRAG on TV that there was NO EVIDENCE of video being taken, lying on record on TV about taking 2 cell phone videos confiskated at the sense of the murder, then lying about the cameras in the subway not working too! Just a few days after this murder 2-3+ videos show up online proving they lied. That's called conspiracy, and that IS WORSE THEN simple 1st degree murder. I hope these facts will not be over looked in the lawsuits. I dont know SF law but I KNOW that there are several different types of conspiracy charges ALONG with the 1st degree murder charge that can and should be brought up with the California Supreme Court.

You obviously don't know much about the law and what constitutes murder. It's what your intent was at the time of the incident. View it any way you want his intent was not to shoot this guy in the back and kill him.

Everyone seems to thing this former Police Officer is going to get a slap on the wrist and go on with his life. That is not going to happen.

It's pretty evident that he confused his Taser with his gun, Either way, he will be charged with a crime. Likely involuntary manslaughter. I'm not all that familiar with CA statutes but I would assume it would be something along those lines.

Conspiracy? Supreme court? Dude, sober up.

 

[tbkustomz]

bart

i think for one the officer was porely trained....why would u even tazor a guy and then shoot him thinking it was you tazor......if that officer doesnt get at least 25 years all hell is goin to break lose...i live in the fruitvale apartments wich is basically connected to the bart station some lady told me in the hall way that a man has been shot on the station i was so drunk that i didnt even bother to go check it out since it was new years,, turn on the news next morning bam wtf....then to see videos of the man getting shot...wow ...i appreciate the oakland police department becuase they go through so much **** but this is MURDER.........

 

[SS_Sean]

Murder is intentionally killing a person. Criminally Negligent Homicide is accidently killing a person. There is a difference. He will serve time, as he should, but it certainly wont be anywhere near 25 years. Some states call is Manslaughter, as in Man 1, Man 2. Some call it Crim Neg Hom, there are various titles to it, but it boils down to the fact that the law recognizes unintentionally killing someone weighs less heavily then intentionally killing someone.

If you accidently caused the death of someone because you recklessly drove your car at 100mph and hit another car you would most likely be charged with crim neg hom. Should you serve 25 years? No. Neither will the officer. He recklessly engaged in conduct he would not normally engage in, which caused the death of another.

An unintentional mistake is just that, a mistake. In this case it cost a life, and as I've said, this man will have to live with his mistake for the rest of his life. That is certainly a tortured existence I don't think any one of us would want to live with, would we?

And petesgn... I don't know you, I respect that you are afforded your opinion, but I've gotta tell you...the several posts you have made on this topic are probably the strangest, angriest things I have read in a long time. What's going on, chief? You obviously have had some bad experiences with the criminal justice system.

 

[artrenee10]

No one is arguing that the cop screwed up. He resigned two days later. The video pretty much shows that deadly force was not authorized.

If you have never let your frustrations out on the public then you don't work where I and thousands of others work.

It's human nature, it's gonna happen from time to time when your dealing with civilians that are often drunk, ignorant and live in poor drug and gun infested nieghborhoods who have nothing, had nothing and probably never will have anything. They grow up hating the police because most of thier family members freedom was taken away by the police at one time or another.

That might be your view where you worked but where I work it's violent and bottles and bricks tend to hurdled your way sooner then latter during a hostile event. When we are in a hostile situation we contain the suspect ASAP with whatever means we have and put them in the police car and move to a safer location.

That is if we can make it out of the projects without having our windows blown out by rocks or bullets.

If you worked in a little sleepy bedroom town town most people will obey the laws and it won't be an issue. When your work in the ghetto with a bunch of animals those rules don't apply.

Or in the backwoods/stix/ with a bunch of rednecks as well..........

Just as bad, if not worse...or equal

 

[artrenee10]

Let me start with Thank you for the great work you guys do, if it wasn’t because of you guys it would total chaos

I was going to say a bunch of stuff but after looking at you LEO’s locations (NJ and CT)
Yes Sir No Sir Sorry Sir even if I did nothing wrong Sir I must still do as you say Sir because while outside of a court room you are the only one with legal writes Sir and I am just a civilian looking to get arrested Sir. Thank you Sir for not arresting me even though I did not break any laws Sir. Are you guys these type of cops I hope not but by some of your statements it looks like some of you might be.

The cop did a terrible thing BTW I think it was by accident But he should pay the price for it just like if a CIVILIAN had done the SAME terrible thing. You guys become cops by choice (I could be wrong) or desire to follow your predatory instincts legally. As I believe 90% of all cops are predators (not a bad thing) but something that’s needs strict guide lines.

You guys have Power over any one on the street and are free to do as you wish with very little PERSONAL accountability and yet you want more Power. Get your dam search warrants for those garbage bags and stop complaining.

I would like to see you guys (LEOs) get pulled over by some of the cops that pulled me over in ENY just for you to see the BS law abiding civilians have to put up with. That wouldn’t work BECAUSE the first thing you guys do is show your badge. What about the tuff guy in the bar that reaches for his badge when he is about to get beat down. What about the A$$hole in the club that pushes his way through but when he is approached for it he reaches for his badge. It goes both ways you have a$$holes on both sides of the fence. The law must be applied to both sides equally which you guys know never ever happens.

also if your job sucks that bad get another job the last thing i want is to get pulled over by cop that hates his job anything could happen.

A little bit over the top.....but your comments seem to be borne out of frustration if nothing less. Ive seen these events happen too, and then I have also seen the opposite of these events...doesn't happent too often, especially in Chicago, but it does and has happened as well...

 

[tbkustomz]

bart

well born and raised in oakland ca ive seen it all in 20 years and experienced a lot of things..ive been harrasd by opd and ive been in hand cuffs to many times for no reason...i understand the officers in some situations since they go through a lot dealing with the crime in this city but the guy was in a non threating position why even think of tazoring him.....

 

[Raymond Bunch]

Ex-Officer Charged with Murder!!!

Ex-officer charged with murder in BART shooting - CNN.com

It was bound to happen.....

 

[TURBOTERRORV6]

yup,it was bound to happen sooner or later. The video does NOT lie, this officer was POORLY train in a hostile event ,let alone in a safe event.The officer did NOT intentionally murder the suspect,but made a HUGE mistake...

 

[GNBRETT]

Ex-officer charged with murder in BART shooting - CNN.com

It was bound to happen.....

I guess when you choose to plead the 5th vs. stating that you drew your service weapon vs. your Taser in your own defense I guess it dosen't give the DA much choice other then to charge him with the elements of murder as the statute indicates based on the video evidence.

He will likely be given the option to plead to the lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter at some point I would think once his attorney and the DA sit down and talk in private. I don't see this going to trial and I don't see this officer pleading to murder.

But when you look at the video on its face it dosen't detail any midigating factors to support a lesser charge at this time. I would have thought that the former Officer would have spoken to authorities by this time. He had to know charges of some sort would be forthcoming.

I find it extremely hard to swollow that his intentions were to shoot this guy in the back with his gun. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that was his intenion.

 

[mr go fast]

YouTube - Oakland BART Shooting My Thoughts

 

[GNBRETT]

YouTube - Oakland BART Shooting My Thoughts

Maybe the state of California will give them an IOU on on the 25 million..... I wonder if it was a white kid that was shot people would still think the police are targeting children for death. The black community should be more concerned about thousands of blacks killings blacks each year then mistake of one cop.

And just for the record, he was not a child. He was an grown man acting like a child....

 

[artrenee10]

I guess when you choose to plead the 5th vs. stating that you drew your service weapon vs. your Taser in your own defense I guess it dosen't give the DA much choice other then to charge him with the elements of murder as the statute indicates based on the video evidence.

He will likely be given the option to plead to the lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter at some point I would think once his attorney and the DA sit down and talk in private. I don't see this going to trial and I don't see this officer pleading to murder.

But when you look at the video on its face it dosen't detail any midigating factors to support a lesser charge at this time. I would have thought that the former Officer would have spoken to authorities by this time. He had to know charges of some sort would be forthcoming.

I find it extremely hard to swollow that his intentions were to shoot this guy in the back with his gun. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that was his intenion.

Im sorry if I missed something earlier...but if he didn't INTEND to shoot the man with his gun. Then WHY did he draw his gun in the first place?

That still does not make any sense......

 

[GNBRETT]

Im sorry if I missed something earlier...but if he didn't INTEND to shoot the man with his gun. Then WHY did he draw his gun in the first place?

That still does not make any sense......

I cant speak for the man but I have personally seen guys in my own department draw their service weapon for a split second and then reholster it and draw their Taser when Tasering someone. I have seen it happen with my own eyes from veteran officers with 15+ years who are highly educated, trained and extremely bright. I'm not making excuses for the guy but it can, has and will happen again that an officer will confuse his Taser with his service weapon. I hope no one gets killed as a result but when emotions and ADRENILUM are flowing mistakes are made in the heat of the moment. His intentions were not to shoot the guy with his gun. I will never believe that unless the cop flat out admits that was his intention.

Sh!t I have seen guys reach for their radio when attempting to reach for their service weapon. It happens. Not often, thankfully. But mistakes are made and officers confuse items on their belt for other things often in the heat of the moment. I've seen guys reach for their flashlight when wanting their nightstick. They are similar in shape. So is a Taser to a gun. It is shapped like a gun. It may be lighter but the shape is similar and you have to unholster it just as you do your service weapon.

It's not about poor training it's about human error. You have to look past the video but that's impossible because you can't look into the Officers mind and what he was thinking at the time. He did not appear to be enraged or out of control. In fact he appeared just the opposite and pulled his weapon in a casual manner as one would when drawing their Taser. He was not drawing his weapon in a manner as tho if he didn't draw it fast enough he was going to loose his life in a deadly force situation. The video just dosent indicate those type of actions.

But ask yourself this question? Don't you think if he could turn back the hands of time and change what he did he would? I'm sure he was an intelligent young man and would know that that if he drew his service weapon and shot a man in the back and killed him his career, life and freedom would be a thing of the past. Do you really believe that was his intensions? Of course it wasn't! What possible thing would he gain by doing that?

He didn't know the guy he shot. He had no score to settle. He confused his Gun with his Taser. Period! It is the only logical assumption to come to. Their was no threat of this supect having a weapon and even tho he was still struggling the officers his life or the life of another officer or civilian was not in imminent danger.

My Taser is on my thigh with an attachment to my service belt on my weak side. The only reason I have it there is because my skinny azz could not fit any more crap on my belt. If your heavier then you have a larger belt which affords you the opportunity to have more room on your belt and many cops carry their Taser on their belt for that reason. In fact, most police departments do not even allow officers to carry their Taser with a thigh holster because it looks too intimidating.... Most all carry it on their service belt.

A witness reporting hearing the officer say three times "Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God" Is that what a cop would be saying if his intention were to shoot an unarmed man in the back and kill him under those circumstances with several other officers around him and a crowd of onlookers several feet away? Not in a million years. It's an unforgivable mistake for sure. But it was a mistake, not an intentional act. There is a big difference between the two.

 

[no-nos]

wow!! i know my opinion may not be popular but it is still my opinion.

I don't see how someone can defend the police officers actions? a mistake of course it was, but that does not mean he could get of with a slap on the wrist, because he thought he went for his tazer , he killed a man , who was lying face down on the floor with 3 other officers. I say he deserve's to be bought to trial, you can't just kill a person and then say opps sorry i meant to for my tazer, i feel very bad for the officer but in his haist, a young man lost his life. even if he did tazer him instead of shooting him, i still see it unjust, the guys down and you have 2 highly train'd police officers standing over him. I know alot of crazy stuff happens in california but dam.

and please remember this is my opinion. I don't dis-like cops, those who know me know i have lots of family members who are police officers. but killing a man who's lying down, there's no excuse. sad story all around

 

[artrenee10]

It's not about poor training it's about human error. You have to look past the video but that's impossible because you can't look into the Officers mind and what he was thinking at the time. He did not appear to be enraged or out of control. In fact he appeared just the opposite and pulled his weapon in a casual manner as one would when drawing their Taser. He was not drawing his weapon in a manner as tho if he didn't draw it fast enough he was going to loose his life in a deadly force situation. The video just dosent indicate those type of actions.


Then once again it begs the question...if he was as calm as he APPEARED on the video, then why did he so CALMLY pull his gun and CALMLY squeeze the trigger?

Adrenaline doesn't lend itself to calm and vice versa...I applaud you for standing up for your own in your profession...regardless you guys have an almost terrifying and thankless job none the less. Unfortunately you are also in position that when mistakes are made...if this truly was a mistake and I am not so convinced that it was...they are fatal...as this (supposedly) is....

 

[GNBRETT]

It's not about poor training it's about human error. You have to look past the video but that's impossible because you can't look into the Officers mind and what he was thinking at the time. He did not appear to be enraged or out of control. In fact he appeared just the opposite and pulled his weapon in a casual manner as one would when drawing their Taser. He was not drawing his weapon in a manner as tho if he didn't draw it fast enough he was going to loose his life in a deadly force situation. The video just dosent indicate those type of actions.


Then once again it begs the question...if he was as calm as he APPEARED on the video, then why did he so CALMLY pull his gun and CALMLY squeeze the trigger?

Adrenaline doesn't lend itself to calm and vice versa...I applaud you for standing up for your own in your profession...regardless you guys have an almost terrifying and thankless job none the less. Unfortunately you are also in position that when mistakes are made...if this truly was a mistake and I am not so convinced that it was...they are fatal...as this (supposedly) is....

Just because adrenaline is flowing dosent mean someone is out of control or erratic. Everyone reacts differently to it inside their head. My adrenaline flows in a stolen car pursuit but im still in control and can communicate to the dispatcher directions of travel, speeds, conditions, number of suspects in the car, etc....

The same question still comes down to whether or not he confused his gun with his Taser. Well, I certainly can't say for sure. Only the former officer knows that answer.

But again, what could he have possibly gained by committing such an act on purpose? Common sense says otherwise.

By no means am I excusing the severity of his actions. A man is dead! Of course it's seroius. Just as there is no excuse for a drunk driver to kill someone after getting behind the wheel. But there is a reason for it. It surely isn't a good reason but I doubt any drunk driver sets out to kill someone on purpose when they get behind the wheel after drinking. I realize were comparing apples to oranges here but my point is someones intent is what makes an act malicious vs. accidental. It may not lessen the end result but it surely lessens the definition of intent.

Why does a drunk driver who kills an innocent teen comming home from her prom get charged with negligent homicide vs. murder? Didn't that person know when they got behind the wheel of a car that they could possibly kill someone? Of course they did. But their intent was not to kill and that is how the laws sees it. This former cop will likely get 10-20 years in prison under CA guidelines depending on what he pleads out to yet the drunk gets 3-5 years.

When an officer Tasers someone its really no big deal and is over in a matter of seconds and is on the low end of the force continum. I would Taser someone before I would Mace them. So his casual pulling of the trigger leads me to believe he was confused. The trigger pull is really not much different with a gun then that of a Taser. Especially if you carry a Glock. Either way the trigger pull pressure is similar.