Before and after dyno

[bison]

That's one reason it was better to be into these cars from the beginning. No one knew any better so it didn't matter as much if you were dumb then! You were expected to blow shit up with too much boost. Now with the internet, you're expected to just read and follow instructions...geeesh...where's the fun in that?

I still remember when everyone thought if you ran more than 22psi it would blow up. I let them candyasses think that and they wondered why I was a half a second faster with much less


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[turbo89]

That's one reason it was better to be into these cars from the beginning. No one knew any better so it didn't matter as much if you were dumb then! You were expected to blow shit up with too much boost. Now with the internet, you're expected to just read and follow instructions...geeesh...where's the fun in that?

in the beginning it was interesting .. you had to tune reading plugs and using EGT's ... that's all we had ... that and single wire O2 ..
The sharp guys were getting power easily .. but back then we couldn't keep the transmissions alive .. all the billet parts weren't around...

yeah .. now days the challenges are just different ... seems like everyone is just copying other peoples numbers and slapping on parts and in reality it still seems they don't know any better today ...
otherwise we wouldn't commonly see 5-6K worth of parts on a car and still only run mid 11's .. now days we have the parts... but still not so many tuners to bring out the potential of those parts.

 

[we4Mateo]

in the beginning it was interesting .. you had to tune reading plugs and using EGT's ... that's all we had ... that and single wire O2 ..
The sharp guys were getting power easily .. but back then we couldn't keep the transmissions alive .. all the billet parts weren't around...

yeah .. now days the challenges are just different ... seems like everyone is just copying other peoples numbers and slapping on parts and in reality it still seems they don't know any better today ...
otherwise we wouldn't commonly see 5-6K worth of parts on a car and still only run mid 11's .. now days we have the parts... but still not so many tuners to bring out the potential of those parts.

True. I also still see a few blocks that don't seem to be machined right in the first place. And it's not just TR guys. There is just a lack of good builders out there these days. That's why I'm so hesitant to finish my new motor. My junk that the general gave me has been working well for so long.

 

[StageII86]

Just go back 10-12 yrs on this board or better yet look at some of the old newsletters. Heck - check the gnttype recipes. Buick guys went way faster with way fewer parts thrown on then.

Granted the faster guys are overall a good second quicker now...

Point is - it seems way more guys actually spent a year or more working to get the most out of a combo before just throwing their hands up and deciding they need a new stroker or billet this or that.

 

[bison]

Just go back 10-12 yrs on this board or better yet look at some of the old newsletters. Heck - check the gnttype recipes. Buick guys went way faster with way fewer parts thrown on then.

Granted the faster guys are overall a good second quicker now...

Point is - it seems way more guys actually spent a year or more working to get the most out of a combo before just throwing their hands up and deciding they need a new stroker or billet this or that.

This


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[we4Mateo]

Just go back 10-12 yrs on this board or better yet look at some of the old newsletters. Heck - check the gnttype recipes. Buick guys went way faster with way fewer parts thrown on then.

Granted the faster guys are overall a good second quicker now...

Point is - it seems way more guys actually spent a year or more working to get the most out of a combo before just throwing their hands up and deciding they need a new stroker or billet this or that.

True, but they didn't care about having it all. Race gas is forgiving and easier to push hard than crappy pump gas we have now with alky added. It's pretty amazing that TAI cars now run in the 9's and can be driven in. Not that the old guys didn't do that too, but fouling O2 sensors all the time stinks. Without race gas, it's easier to over build the engine and make it breath well, and then just run a conservative alky/pump gas tune and still run the number and still run on the street. Not everyone is max effort and trying to break records. I know I've been advised to use what I consider over the top parts to get max effort when I, and others, want a RELIABLE 10.50 car which takes, of course 9.50 parts, but everyone wants to demonize and state how everyone went faster with less back in the day. This is true, but reliability is seldom mentioned.

Let the flaming begin! JK, I love a good debate.

 

[StageII86]

True, but they didn't care about having it all. Race gas is forgiving and easier to push hard than crappy pump gas we have now with alky added. It's pretty amazing that TAI cars now run in the 9's and can be driven in. Not that the old guys didn't do that too, but fouling O2 sensors all the time stinks. Without race gas, it's easier to over build the engine and make it breath well, and then just run a conservative alky/pump gas tune and still run the number and still run on the street. Not everyone is max effort and trying to break records. I know I've been advised to use what I consider over the top parts to get max effort when I, and others, want a RELIABLE 10.50 car which takes, of course 9.50 parts, but everyone wants to demonize and state how everyone went faster with less back in the day. This is true, but reliability is seldom mentioned.

Let the flaming begin! JK, I love a good debate.

I understand your philosophy completely. I myself am doing a fully forged motor. However, I can't help but notice the nicer parts don't seem to keep people out of the weeds around here. It's always something...

If stock longblocks were more plentiful, I'd likely just run one of those, and keep a spare or 3

Also, what's done on pump gas and alky is amazing. But for me, if I'm going to attempt the cylinder pressure for 135+ traps, $10 gal fuel is nothing especially if I have huge $ in the motor. Doesn't matter what parts you have, detonate it enough and it's gone. Ask Stage 2 guys.

 

[OhioC5]

in the beginning it was interesting .. you had to tune reading plugs and using EGT's ... that's all we had ... that and single wire O2 ..
The sharp guys were getting power easily .. but back then we couldn't keep the transmissions alive .. all the billet parts weren't around...

yeah .. now days the challenges are just different ... seems like everyone is just copying other peoples numbers and slapping on parts and in reality it still seems they don't know any better today ...
otherwise we wouldn't commonly see 5-6K worth of parts on a car and still only run mid 11's .. now days we have the parts... but still not so many tuners to bring out the potential of those parts.

Let's remember 5k nowadays doesn't go very far. I wasn't around these cars back in the day, but from my perspective I'd rather have a transmission built one time by a good builder like Vince and have a good quality converter from Dusty with trans cooler. Hell, theres a few large right there and they work well. I don't want to mess with cracking exhaust manifolds, there's another chunk of change for TA manifolds. I ran race gas one summer but it became annoying driving a town or two over for fill ups. I enjoy driving my car everyday I'm not working 12-14 or 16 hours. What was an obvious option for me? Razors Alky, another sizable purchase, but this mod made my car more enjoyable for the wife and I to jump in and go. Then there's the sticky tires, not cheap either. Weld racing rims aren't necessary but they sure look nice. I'd like to upgrade my turbo, well hell there goes another grand. Then you think new turbo I must have new downpipe. And when the car starts out with an untouched 20k miles everything basic needs updated or upgraded. Fuel pump, FPR, wastegate, some type of intercooler or duttneck, wires, plugs, valve springs, injectors and fluids.

With all that said, there's no doubt the pioneers of the GN's were more savvy most likely out of necessity. There's also parts on my personal car completely unnecessary to run mid 11's. However, I like the ability to tune the car myself with a FAST system, this too is out of necessity that ended up being a blessing in disguise, I'm getting better. Your last sentence drove it home though. I'll paraphrase, not many tuners to bring out the potential of these parts. A vey good explanation as short and to the point as it was, well said.

I apologize for the long winded post, just throwing a newer to the scene guys thoughts.