Brand new to the site, my first TR oil pressure troubles

[Whiteturbot87]

Hi, need some help, i picked up a white turbo t a couple weeks ago for my first car (im 17). Im not new to anything automotive but these turbo 231s are very diiferent than the sbc i worked on growing up. Anyways the car is clean and has a fully built motor 6k miles back. After driving it home 4 hours i decided to tackle the most apparent problems first starting with high temp 225+ and a tired suspension. So in went new coils and shocks as well as an aluminum gn1 rad. And water wetter. Car runs much better temp 190idle 201 with throttle (its 107 where i live). However it seems i have no oil pressure when i start the car its fine but 5mins in the needle wags to 0psi as well as a slight tick from the lifters.After some research i considered my options and with no money to throw at a rebuild i pulled and cut open my biggie filter to look for metal, none. So i swapped oil to 5-1/2 qts of 20w-50 and now i have 10psi oil pressure at idle and 10psi more for every 1k it revs. While that seems ok ive seen many people call this a bandaid? Is that true? What are my options?

 

[fastblackracing]

The fact that you heard a tick to go along with the low gauge pressure means serious trouble.
What do you know of the history of the car....how extensive was the rebuild was the the shop that did the rebuild
familiar with turbo regal builds?

The low oil pressure that low is usually too much bearing clearance or worn out bearings.
was the oil pressure ok at first?

The condition of the front cover oil pump pockets are another place you can lose oil psi...
Hydraulic or solid lifter cam? Roller or flat tappet?

Since you are young and ambitious its about a 2 hour job to remove the oil pan and you can then
check some bearings and the oil pump pick up for debris.

remove the torque converter dust cover and then remove cross over pipe then the starter
then the 20 bolts that hold the pan, a little wiggling of the pan and it comes out.....sometimes u have to rotate the engine a half turn or so to get a rod out of the way....but its not a big deal to get it out.

I have seen these engines live on 10 pounds idle pressure but your borderline and you really
need 60 psi hot when the the engine is at wide open throttle.

I would be pulling valve covers to check for cam lobes wearing and the oil pan before I did
much of anything else.

And welcome to to the turbo regal world. Great cars.....there like a really hot woman....when all is right its fantastic
but you know there will be some drama along the way.....

 

[Whiteturbot87]

The fact that you heard a tick to go along with the low gauge pressure means serious trouble.
What do you know of the history of the car....how extensive was the rebuild was the the shop that did the rebuild
familiar with turbo regal builds?

The low oil pressure that low is usually too much bearing clearance or worn out bearings.
was the oil pressure ok at first?

The condition of the front cover oil pump pockets are another place you can lose oil psi...
Hydraulic or solid lifter cam? Roller or flat tappet?

Since you are young and ambitious its about a 2 hour job to remove the oil pan and you can then
check some bearings and the oil pump pick up for debris.
remove the torque converter dust cover and then the 20 bolts that hold the pan,
a little wiggling of the pan and it comes out.....sometimes u have to rotate the engine a half turn or so
to get a rod out of the way....but its not a big deal to get it out.

I have seen these engines live on 10 pounds idle pressure but your borderline and you really
need 60 psi hot when the the engine is at wide open throttle.

I would be pulling valve covers to check for cam lobes wearing and the oil pan before I did
much of anything else.

And welcome to to the turbo regal world. Great cars.....there like a really hot woman....when all is right its fantastic
but you know there will be some drama along the way.....

Thanks for the advice, after the 20w50 is about the most normal psi ive seen in the car. I dont know any specs on cam. What am i looking for on the bearings and under valve covers, wear? Also should i look into a booster plate or rebuild kit for my oil pump which i assume they sisnt replace when building the motor.

 

[Wahoo]

I just did my oil pan gasket.

I put brand new motor mounts in before hand because the car needed it.

You need to remove the crossover pipe as well, but then the pan can be wiggled/rotated past the oil pick up tube.

Good luck!

 

[Wahoo]

I just did my oil pan gasket.

I put brand new motor mounts in before hand because the car needed it.

You need to remove the crossover pipe as well, but then the pan can be wiggled/rotated past the oil pick up tube.

Good luck!

 

[Wahoo]

I just did my oil pan gasket.

I put brand new motor mounts in before hand because the car needed it.

You need to remove the crossover pipe as well, but then the pan can be wiggled/rotated past the oil pick up tube.

Good luck!

 

[Whiteturbot87]

I just did my oil pan gasket.

I put brand new motor mounts in before hand because the car needed it.

You need to remove the crossover pipe as well, but then the pan can be wiggled/rotated past the oil pick up tube.

Good luck!

Also am i removing pump or pick up tube to check for debris or would it be a visible blockage?

 

[fastblackracing]

You want to have someone crank the engine over after you remove the valve covers but leave the plug wires off
so it does not start.

while the engine is cranking all off the rocker arms should be moving up and down the same amount....
if one is only moving half what the others are the cam is wearing out. the # 3 exhaust lobe is a favorite one to wear out but all have to be checked.

If you pull the oil pan you will want to take a main cap or 2 off and also a couple of rod caps and then
take pics and post them on here so we can see them and advise you on the next step.

I would hold off on the oil pump mods until you know what the internal condition is.

Does your car still have the factory oil cooler hooked up with its lines and the adapter that goes between the oil filter and pump? Its hot enough where your at that you need it.

 

[Wahoo]

Also am i removing pump or pick up tube to check for debris or would it be a visible blockage?

I didnt pull the pick up tube on mine because i didnt have a gasket, and i was told debris would only be on the screen, which was very minor debris. So i tried to wipe it off witbout pushing anything past the screen.

I probably should have pulled some of my caps and checked my bearings but decided most likly going to rebuild it this winter so i didnt want to mess with it now.

 

[Whiteturbot87]

I just did my oil pan gasket.

I put brand new motor mounts in before hand because the car needed it.

You need to remove the crossover pipe as well, but then the pan can be wiggled/rotated past the oil pick up tube.

Good luck!

Also am i removing pump or pick up tube to check for debris or would it be a visible blockage?

You want to have someone crank the engine over after you remove the valve covers but leave the plug wires off
so it does not start.

while the engine is cranking all off the rocker arms should be moving up and down the same amount....
if one is only moving half what the others are the cam is wearing out. the # 3 exhaust lobe is a favorite one to wear out but all have to be checked.

If you pull the oil pan you will want to take a main cap or 2 off and also a couple of rod caps and then
take pics and post them on here so we can see them and advise you on the next step.

I would hold off on the oil pump mods until you know what the internal condition is.

Does your car still have the factory oil cooler hooked up with its lines and the adapter that goes between the oil filter and pump? Its hot enough where your at that you need it.

Ok ill make sure to crank motor with the valve covers off, i should do that before i drain the oil right? Also i believe i have my filter attached to the adapter to the pump and two lines going to radiator, assuming theres built in oil cooler.

 

[Whiteturbot87]

I just did my oil pan gasket.

I put brand new motor mounts in before hand because the car needed it.

You need to remove the crossover pipe as well, but then the pan can be wiggled/rotated past the oil pick up tube.

Good luck!

Also am i removing pump or pick up tube to check for debris or would it be a visible blockage?

You want to have someone crank the engine over after you remove the valve covers but leave the plug wires off
so it does not start.

while the engine is cranking all off the rocker arms should be moving up and down the same amount....
if one is only moving half what the others are the cam is wearing out. the # 3 exhaust lobe is a favorite one to wear out but all have to be checked.

If you pull the oil pan you will want to take a main cap or 2 off and also a couple of rod caps and then
take pics and post them on here so we can see them and advise you on the next step.

I would hold off on the oil pump mods until you know what the internal condition is.

Does your car still have the factory oil cooler hooked up with its lines and the adapter that goes between the oil filter and pump? Its hot enough where your at that you need it.

Ok ill make sure to crank motor with the valve covers off, i should do that before i drain the oil right? Also i believe i have my filter attached to the adapter to the pump and two lines going to radiator, assuming theres built in oil cooler.

 

[fastblackracing]

You want to have someone crank the engine over after you remove the valve covers but leave the plug wires off
so it does not start.

while the engine is cranking all off the rocker arms should be moving up and down the same amount....
if one is only moving half what the others are the cam is wearing out. the # 3 exhaust lobe is a favorite one to wear out but all have to be checked.

If you pull the oil pan you will want to take a main cap or 2 off and also a couple of rod caps and then
take pics and post them on here so we can see them and advise you on the next step.

I would hold off on the oil pump mods until you know what the internal condition is.

Does your car still have the factory oil cooler hooked up with its lines and the adapter that goes between the oil filter and pump? Its hot enough where your at that you need it.

Also am i removing pump or pick up tube to check for debris or would it be a visible blockage?


Ok ill make sure to crank motor with the valve covers off, i should do that before i drain the oil right? Also i believe i have my filter attached to the adapter to the pump and two lines going to radiator, assuming theres built in oil cooler.

Yes crank the engine over before draining oil out as you watch the rockers.....it will have to crank for 15 seconds or so on each side as you watch one side at a time.

And the oil pickup will be very visible as it is the one thing you have to maneuver the pan around before it is free.
it will be very obvious if there is anything on it or in the bottom of the pan at this point.

The oil pump is mounted on the front cover right behind where the oil filter is....completley different set up
from what you are used to.

 

[Whiteturbot87]

You want to have someone crank the engine over after you remove the valve covers but leave the plug wires off
so it does not start.

while the engine is cranking all off the rocker arms should be moving up and down the same amount....
if one is only moving half what the others are the cam is wearing out. the # 3 exhaust lobe is a favorite one to wear out but all have to be checked.

If you pull the oil pan you will want to take a main cap or 2 off and also a couple of rod caps and then
take pics and post them on here so we can see them and advise you on the next step.

I would hold off on the oil pump mods until you know what the internal condition is.

Does your car still have the factory oil cooler hooked up with its lines and the adapter that goes between the oil filter and pump? Its hot enough where your at that you need it.



Yes crank the engine over before draining oil out as you watch the rockers.....it will have to crank for 15 seconds or so on each side as you watch one side at a time.

And the oil pickup will be very visible as it is the one thing you have to maneuver the pan around before it is free.
it will be very obvious if there is anything on it or in the bottom of the pan at this point.

The oil pump is mounted on the front cover right behind where the oil filter is....completley different set up
from what you are used to.

Ok really appreciate the advice, and yes just looked at car oil pump on front with adapter for a bigger fram filter and 2 lines to radiator cooler. Ill leave oil pump alone for now and check rockers tommorow, probably pull pan off later this week and get you pictures

 

[Whiteturbot87]

You want to have someone crank the engine over after you remove the valve covers but leave the plug wires off
so it does not start.

while the engine is cranking all off the rocker arms should be moving up and down the same amount....
if one is only moving half what the others are the cam is wearing out. the # 3 exhaust lobe is a favorite one to wear out but all have to be checked.

If you pull the oil pan you will want to take a main cap or 2 off and also a couple of rod caps and then
take pics and post them on here so we can see them and advise you on the next step.

I would hold off on the oil pump mods until you know what the internal condition is.

Does your car still have the factory oil cooler hooked up with its lines and the adapter that goes between the oil filter and pump? Its hot enough where your at that you need it.



Yes crank the engine over before draining oil out as you watch the rockers.....it will have to crank for 15 seconds or so on each side as you watch one side at a time.

And the oil pickup will be very visible as it is the one thing you have to maneuver the pan around before it is free.
it will be very obvious if there is anything on it or in the bottom of the pan at this point.

The oil pump is mounted on the front cover right behind where the oil filter is....completley different set up
from what you are used to.

Ok really appreciate the advice, and yes just looked at car oil pump on front with adapter for a bigger fram filter and 2 lines to radiator cooler. Ill leave oil pump alone for now and check rockers tommorow, probably pull pan off later this week and get you pictures

 

[TurboBob]

I would not crank the engine with just the plug wires pulled off. if the coils are trying to fire with no plugs attached the voltage spike is not really good for the coils.

the best way to disable the engine from starting if you want to crank it over is to unplug the crank or cam sensors, or unplug the ignition module.

Anyway, I agree with most of what these guys are saying, you want to figure out what you have, and low oil pressure is not a good thing. If the engine is really just 6K old, then I have to wonder who did the work, and what the bearing clearances and pump clearances are.

If the oil pump was reassembled with a new gasket, it likely has too much clearance which will affect your idle pressure. Easy fix there.

But, one last thing..... What kind of oil presure gauge are you using? I had my share of bad luck with gauges, and don't trust any of them any more.

Where are you located, likely there are members nearby that can lend an eyeball to the diagnosis.

Bob

 

[TurboBob]

No metal in the filter is a good sign anyway.

Bob

 

[Whiteturbot87]

I would not crank the engine with just the plug wires pulled off. if the coils are trying to fire with no plugs attached the voltage spike is not really good for the coils.

the best way to disable the engine from starting if you want to crank it over is to unplug the crank or cam sensors, or unplug the ignition module.

Anyway, I agree with most of what these guys are saying, you want to figure out what you have, and low oil pressure is not a good thing. If the engine is really just 6K old, then I have to wonder who did the work, and what the bearing clearances and pump clearances are.

If the oil pump was reassembled with a new gasket, it likely has too much clearance which will affect your idle pressure. Easy fix there.

But, one last thing..... What kind of oil presure gauge are you using? I had my share of bad luck with gauges, and don't trust any of them any more.

Where are you located, likely there are members nearby that can lend an eyeball to the diagnosis.

Bob

Im in palm desert california, maybe theres someone nearby. And how should i go about checking clearance on my oil pump? Also im using VDO electric gauge, any ideas on how to hook up a more reliable mechanical one?

 

[TurboBob]

VDO is decent, GlowShift sucks

there are some oil pump experts on here that can go into real details. But the first question is whether the front cover is stock GM, or aftermarket and whether it has a high volume kit or not. Post some pics of it.

To set clearance with out removing the front cover, you unbolt the oil filter adapter and lay a straight edge across the face of the gears to determine if they are flush, sunk into the pocket, or protrude. then select a gasket that sets the assembled clearance at "almost nothing". Selective gasket kits are available from TA performance. You can also add a high volume kit which will help your pressure and let you run lighter oil, once you are satisfied that the engine is basically healthy. (note that my engine is this way, with the high volume kit I have about 10 psi at hot idle with 10W40).

And, since nobody mentioned it, if you have a conventional flat-tapped camshaft you need to run conventional oil with ZDDP additive, or the cam will probably fail on you.

Bob

 

[fastblackracing]

Im in palm desert california, maybe theres someone nearby. And how should i go about checking clearance on my oil pump? Also im using VDO electric gauge, any ideas on how to hook up a more reliable mechanical one?

A decent mechanical gauge will cost you in the range of 70$ from summit.
However for test purposes you just need a mechanical gauge that is not damaged and a way to connect it to the brass tee at the turbo feed from the block where your electric gauge sending unit is....If you are not able to come up
with the needed fittings and tubing for a temporary guage you may just want to make the purhase from summit or jegs of the mechanical gauge.

Checking the oil pump end clearance is a PITA with the engine in the car.......
You will want to rotate the engine and line the timing marks up....this will help with reassembly.

NEXT you would have to remove the cover plate that is held on with 6 bolts and
then you will puke oil every where as the pump drains out.

Then you will need to remove the cam sensor noting its position both where the wires are pointing'
and take the cap off and note the position off the window in the rotor for reassembly.

Then after cleaning you will need to get a plastigauge set that goes up to .009 from summit IIRC
then put the plastigauge on the bottom of the pump gears reassemble and tighten to crush
the plastigauge......then remve the cover again and comare the crushed plastigage to th the strip chart
provided in the kit.

Or the the best way is in you have access to machinist tool you can use a depth micrometer and then a micrometer
to measure the crushed gasket and do the math.
But I have never done one in the car and I do not know if you can use the depth mic in the car......

Then after that is all done you have to pack the pump and gears with vaseline or wheel bearing grease put the
pump together then prime the oil system and then go through the cam sensor setting procedure and then put it all back together.
..............Like I said a real pita to do in the car............

 

[Whiteturbot87]

I would not crank the engine with just the plug wires pulled off. if the coils are trying to fire with no plugs attached the voltage spike is not really good for the coils.

the best way to disable the engine from starting if you want to crank it over is to unplug the crank or cam sensors, or unplug the ignition module.

Anyway, I agree with most of what these guys are saying, you want to figure out what you have, and low oil pressure is not a good thing. If the engine is really just 6K old, then I have to wonder who did the work, and what the bearing clearances and pump clearances are.

If the oil pump was reassembled with a new gasket, it likely has too much clearance which will affect your idle pressure. Easy fix there.

But, one last thing..... What kind of oil presure gauge are you using? I had my share of bad luck with gauges, and don't trust any of them any more.

Where are you located, likely there are members nearby that can lend an eyeball to the diagnosis.

Bob

Im in palm desert california, maybe theres someone nearby. And how should i go about checking clearance on my oil pump? Also im using VDO electric gauge, any ideas on how to hook up a more reliable mechanical one?

A decent mechanical gauge will cost you in the range of 70$ from summit.
However for test purposes you just need a mechanical gauge that is not damaged and a way to connect it to the brass tee at the turbo feed from the block where your electric gauge sending unit is....If you are not able to come up
with the needed fittings and tubing for a temporary guage you may just want to make the purhase from summit or jegs of the mechanical gauge.

Checking the oil pump end clearance is a PITA with the engine in the car.......
You will want to rotate the engine and line the timing marks up....this will help with reassembly.

NEXT you would have to remove the cover plate that is held on with 6 bolts and
then you will puke oil every where as the pump drains out.

Then you will need to remove the cam sensor noting its position both where the wires are pointing'
and take the cap off and note the position off the window in the rotor for reassembly.

Then after cleaning you will need to get a plastigauge set that goes up to .009 from summit IIRC
then put the plastigauge on the bottom of the pump gears reassemble and tighten to crush
the plastigauge......then remve the cover again and comare the crushed plastigage to th the strip chart
provided in the kit.

Or the the best way is in you have access to machinist tool you can use a depth micrometer and then a micrometer
to measure the crushed gasket and do the math.
But I have never done one in the car and I do not know if you can use the depth mic in the car......

Then after that is all done you have to pack the pump and gears with vaseline or wheel bearing grease put the
pump together then prime the oil system and then go through the cam sensor setting procedure and then put it all back together.
..............Like I said a real pita to do in the car............

yeah that sounds like alot and a whole lot more than my knowledge of these motors, ill inspect everything first rockers bearings etc. alsoo ordering parts for a temporary oil guage ill install at turbo inlet line, just to make sure my readings with the electrix one were accurate. After all that i will tackle the pump, updates coming.