BS3 Equipt - Long Story

[MY3TTYPES]

When does the BS3 NOT stand for Big Stuff?! My saga:

When I itched for a t-top GN, I searched. After 6 months, I found what I thought was a good one. An 86 with mild parts, and only a few of them. New posi, wired Walbro with adjustable regulator, stainless exhaust, K&N filter, boost/knock gauge, new TE44 ball bearing turbo...added a set of 16" GNX wheels. I’m set! A good, basic combo with a solid, unopened motor owned by mature (and experienced) individual. And I’m not new to used cars. I know there will be things. There always is, right? Right.

So when the car arrives (6 weeks after purchase) I take delivery. At the depot, the folks ask me “Where is the flat bed?” Huh? “Ya, that car has no brakes! You can’t drive it.” So I look around under-hood, see it’s out of fluid. Strange. Seller drove it 45+ miles to the depot for drop-off. Well, I topped off the brake fluid and had enough to get my 50+ miles home. Car doesn’t run as well as I would’ve thought, but well enough for me to get home (almost). At 3/8 fuel in the tank, the car stalls and won’t start. Hmm, “Hey Bud, bring me some GAS!” Car fires but runs a little worse. But I fill the tank, (takes 10.6 gals., about right for 3/8) and get home. Must meed some fuel gauge work. No biggy. Closer inspection shows need for a new Power Master.

Well, at least now I know the brakes are ok, though at a price (you know what I mean). Do the other basic things; plugs, tranny service, fuel filter, oil change to Royal Purple with correct filter, install the GNX wheels, and a thorough cleaning and a CD player with fresh speakers. I’m ready for summer fun!! “Commuter Special, coming through!” Shinin’ bright and getting looks and thumbs up everywhere. People wanting to play, I just smile (no need for tickets). Not yet, still to new.

Front vibrates a little and, after a look-see, notice the sad bushings in the front A-ams. I’ll get to those soon enough. Ride to work a few days, happy with myself and new ride, but it still runs rough here and there with bad mileage. Around 15! But it passes CA smog test ok. But it stalls and won’t start 5 or 6 times now. So I set the TPS and IAC after a thorough cleaning. No change. Wires seem ok, but will soon be replaced. Fuel pressure was at 35 psi, so I bump it up to 39-40. Seems the same. Still haven’t goosed it, not yet familiar enough yet.

I start looking closer at the programming in the BS3. Get some help from PTE with the settings, but still not happy. I figure there is a parameter/combination at fault. I’m learning. Play with the maps some (fuel only) and it seems to help overall, until the stall happens. And a program that makes the car happy one day doesn’t mean it’s happy another day. But I keep trying little changes. Make progress, then WHAM! Bad running. Have gone back to original program several times but car has never liked it much. But it’s my base line.

So this week, I go for a longer ride, about 150 miles round trip, for work. Beautiful day. 84*, sunny, tops in the trunk. Lovin’ it! This is what it’s about! Until the stall. Well today, I’ve got laptop, fuel pressure gauge and a few basic tools. Fuel pressure is good, but the BS3 dash is saying very high AF ratio. Like 15.9:1! Uh-oh! So, I fatten the map in all non-boost range by 25%! Also, open the O2 Correction (+ and -) to 25%! Well, it runs again. Cautiously, I motor home, trying to watch the laptop while running. In case something bad changes. It’s seems low on power, but otherwise, not bad. Even the O2 Correction seems kinda happy with only minimal adjustment around 2% - 3% overall.

Next day, it’s running so fat that I think I killed the plugs. I’ll check them this weekend. I dropped the map back towards “normal” but something isn’t right, maybe plugs. I checked all electrical connections and they “seem” to be ok. Cleaned up a little anyway. I’m gonna check the EGR valve (though not in operation) and plugs, looks for vacuum leaks, etc. I’m thinking maybe the O2 sensor may be at fault, but I really don’t know.

So, that’s my story. Any ideas?

TIA, Ed

 

[TurboBob]

how is the MAP sensor wired in? If the BS3 is wired to the stock MAP sensor wiring and the stock boost gauge wiring is left connected, then the 2 power sources will mess with each other.

This will cause it to run differently when the lights are on, foot on the brake, or other wierdness.

Programs don't change themselves (its not Windows....) so its probably a sensor or wiring. This assumes that the car/engine are ok.

Bob

 

[MY3TTYPES]

how is the MAP sensor wired in? If the BS3 is wired to the stock MAP sensor wiring and the stock boost gauge wiring is left connected, then the 2 power sources will mess with each other.

This will cause it to run differently when the lights are on, foot on the brake, or other wierdness.

Programs don't change themselves (its not Windows....) so its probably a sensor or wiring. This assumes that the car/engine are ok.

Bob

PTE wired the car. I'll try to look into that, but it's been a strange problem. I have seen no effects as you describe from any other electrical systems being used.

Thanks for the input, Ed

 

[norbs]

You are dealing with alot of variiables here. First of all things are gett ing messed up since your changing the base fuel map all the time at different engine temperatures and underhood ambient temperatures. After your long drive you should set the ve map where it runs best at idle and cruise ranges for the pefect corrections you want.

Now, the next time you drive the car and it has a stalling issue, see what is happening, has it gone lean? rich, idle rpm etc. Most stalling issues are caused by the iac postion being wrong and the throttle follower set not to open enough as you get on the throttle. YOu are to adjust the throttle blade so the iac is rough 5/-10% from closed postion at hot idle, in park.

When you start it cold if its lean add warmup enrichment, don;t increase the base map. This may take alot of cold starts under different temperatures outside. If it cranks and starts and stalls you need to incease the afterstart enrichment area;s for that temperature.

After a hot start it will be lean also so again add afterstart fuel , don;t mess with the ve numbers.


Have patience, and do one step at a time or you will go iin circles...........

 

[MY3TTYPES]

You are dealing with alot of variiables here. First of all things are gett ing messed up since your changing the base fuel map all the time at different engine temperatures and underhood ambient temperatures. After your long drive you should set the ve map where it runs best at idle and cruise ranges for the pefect corrections you want.

Now, the next time you drive the car and it has a stalling issue, see what is happening, has it gone lean? rich, idle rpm etc. Most stalling issues are caused by the iac postion being wrong and the throttle follower set not to open enough as you get on the throttle. YOu are to adjust the throttle blade so the iac is rough 5/-10% from closed postion at hot idle, in park.

When you start it cold if its lean add warmup enrichment, don;t increase the base map. This may take alot of cold starts under different temperatures outside. If it cranks and starts and stalls you need to incease the afterstart enrichment area;s for that temperature.

After a hot start it will be lean also so again add afterstart fuel , don;t mess with the ve numbers.


Have patience, and do one step at a time or you will go iin circles...........

1st- I've only done the "wild map changes" get to get the car running enough to get home. The car was running pretty well up to the point of stall. It was then I made those changes.

2nd- Most of my "tuning" changes were minimal, i.e. 1 point VE or maybe a couple of points, at most. All done at operating temp and only after observing BS3 dash readings and logs and at varying loads/speeds.
Also, my hard start was also following this strange warm stall.

3rd- After the stall, the car goes WAY lean. From a normal 14"1 AF ratio (cruise) to 15.9:1 (or higher as it's off the scale). THAT's why I fattened it up so much. My TPS and IAC are set right. And I've rechecked them "during stall times" and they are still fne, as is static fuel prssure.

4th- I have returned to the base program sent with the car (which it didn't reaaly like) several times, but it doesn't help. My problems seem to be at operating temps, so I don't believe I have a cold start issue, therefore I haven't seen the need to mess around with the start-up/warm-up settings. But if you feel they need attention, what would you recommend?

Thank you for the input, Norbs. I look forward to your advice. Ed

 

[turbodave231]

Ed,

Just because PTE wired the car does mean it is right. I bought my system from Joe Lubrant when he was still at PTE. The interface harness they sent me was badly mis-wired. All 6 injectors were wrong and the WBO2 wiring was wrong (bad instructions). You may want to carefully check your MAP, TPS and CTS circuitry. Also check to see that your injectors are wired correctly.

Dave

 

[norbs]

THe bs3 has been known to have the map power and ground reveresd in the instructions, but this usualy burns up the map sensor instantly, ran into this problem before. SO check that also.

 

[MY3TTYPES]

Ed,

Just because PTE wired the car does mean it is right. I bought my system from Joe Lubrant when he was still at PTE. The interface harness they sent me was badly mis-wired. All 6 injectors were wrong and the WBO2 wiring was wrong (bad instructions). You may want to carefully check your MAP, TPS and CTS circuitry. Also check to see that your injectors are wired correctly.

Dave

Just a passing thought. If there were mis-wiring of this install, but the program is set right for our firing order, i.e. 1,6,5,4,3,2, would the car even run? The car has run (after some tuning) pretty well over all, as I've put a couple thousand miles on it since I took delivery. Also, could it cause the unpredictable behavior I'm experiencing?

When I was checking for connection integrity at the ECU and Main harness junction, I realized that ALL the wires are black. So this will take some time to accomplish. But if that has been an issue before, I'll do it. I'm on a mission!

Currently, the WBO2 and it's location in the stock mounting bung have me concerned. I suspect it may be injured and malfunctioning/misreading. Anyone have the part number for the replacement? Is the part number on the WBO2 for reference?

Dave, thanks again. Ed

 

[MY3TTYPES]

THe bs3 has been known to have the map power and ground reveresd in the instructions, but this usualy burns up the map sensor instantly, ran into this problem before. SO check that also.

Thanks Norbs,

It seems to be reading ok, but I'll check again more closely.

Ed

 

[S2V6RACER]

Sounds like there was a lot of issues with the car, I would be questioning how the car was put together first and rule out the obvious before I started a negative post about the engine management system.

Maybe give John Meaney of BS3 a call or Harry at PTE if it was wired by them and they can help out before hammering the product.

 

[MY3TTYPES]

Sounds like there was a lot of issues with the car, I would be questioning how the car was put together first and rule out the obvious before I started a negative post about the engine management system.

Maybe give John Meaney of BS3 a call or Harry at PTE if it was wired by them and they can help out before hammering the product.

First of all, this isn't a negative post at all. You can interpret the post title many ways. I would think, if you've read the post through, you wouldn't have gotten that idea. But appearantly you did. Sorry for that, but that's on you.

This post has been insightful, positive and, most of all, hepful to me. I don't recall any product slams in this post. I think the BS3 is potentially a great system. I haven't been able to conclude that as I am having some trouble right now, therefore I am asking for input from others more experienced than myself. The response has been very good so far, not to mention I have been brought to light on some of my set-ups existing short comings. Things which I intend to remedy, like my WBO2 location, for example.

Until your post, everyone has been helpful, curious, and productive. No one else seems to feel offended, nor have I made any negative comments on the BS3 system. In fact, it has been suggested that I remove the BS3 and go back to the stock ECM to avoid headache, to which I have politely stated I wasn't interested in doing.

My hope would be that someone of your level of experience would have more to contribute or have the manners to let a good, productive post be.

I would welcome any suggestions you might have, even if they are an echo of something already posted, or to clarify on a previous post. Please, chime in. I'm sure we'd all like a pros input. I know I would.

So, please, feel free to re-read the whole post. If I'm wrong somewhere with this, I'm not so proud that that I won't apologize. If, in some way, I have offended you or a product of yours, I am truely sorry. Please accept my apology as I certainly didn't intend to offend ANYone. I'm just trying to fix my ride, and doing so by asking the fine and informed members of this board.

So, thanks, I guess, for your post. Ed

 

[S2V6RACER]

First of all, this isn't a negative post at all. You can interpret the post title many ways. I would think, if you've read the post through, you wouldn't have gotten that idea. But appearantly you did. Sorry for that, but that's on you.

This post has been insightful, positive and, most of all, hepful to me. I don't recall any product slams in this post. I think the BS3 is potentially a great system. I haven't been able to conclude that as I am having some trouble right now, therefore I am asking for input from others more experienced than myself. The response has been very good so far, not to mention I have been brought to light on some of my set-ups existing short comings. Things which I intend to remedy, like my WBO2 location, for example.

Until your post, everyone has been helpful, curious, and productive. No one else seems to feel offended, nor have I made any negative comments on the BS3 system. In fact, it has been suggested that I remove the BS3 and go back to the stock ECM to avoid headache, to which I have politely stated I wasn't interested in doing.

My hope would be that someone of your level of experience would have more to contribute or have the manners to let a good, productive post be.

I would welcome any suggestions you might have, even if they are an echo of something already posted, or to clarify on a previous post. Please, chime in. I'm sure we'd all like a pros input. I know I would.

So, please, feel free to re-read the whole post. If I'm wrong somewhere with this, I'm not so proud that that I won't apologize. If, in some way, I have offended you or a product of yours, I am truely sorry. Please accept my apology as I certainly didn't intend to offend ANYone. I'm just trying to fix my ride, and doing so by asking the fine and informed members of this board.

So, thanks, I guess, for your post. Ed

Thanks for clearing this up. Your title appears to be a little aggressive toward the BS3 system that probably isn't at fault and you appear to have things under control now. Maybe a aftermarket ECU might not be a good choice for you right now untill you can get the car sorted out.

I am currently not running a BS3, but know that Harry or John or Mike Browne from Wires and Pliers are there to help if you need them with customer support.

I really don't know where to begin on your problem other than start from scratch and verify any other issues or electrical gremlins that could be causing you to chase your tail. Sometimes it is faster to rip out things and start from scratch and do things yourself the way they should be done. It would appear that whoever you bought the car from did a lot of things that are not up to par, so I would focus on that and be suspect of more things done wrong at this point.

 

[MY3TTYPES]

Thanks for clearing this up. Your title appears to be a little aggressive toward the BS3 system that probably isn't at fault and you appear to have things under control now. Maybe a aftermarket ECU might not be a good choice for you right now untill you can get the car sorted out.

I am currently not running a BS3, but know that Harry or John or Mike Browne from Wires and Pliers are there to help if you need them with customer support.

I really don't know where to begin on your problem other than start from scratch and verify any other issues or electrical gremlins that could be causing you to chase your tail. Sometimes it is faster to rip out things and start from scratch and do things yourself the way they should be done. It would appear that whoever you bought the car from did a lot of things that are not up to par, so I would focus on that and be suspect of more things done wrong at this point.

Just to clear things up a little more, some references I made are from other posts on this board (and the "others"), but the response has been very good.

I have been in contact with PTE (Harry, a busy man, has been hard to get ahold of since I bought the car from him), and they have tried to help me. But we have scheduling conflicts that makes it difficult. Time change and I gotta work, too.

As I stated, I see no reason to pull the system, and replacing the missing peices to return to the stock ECM would be cost prohibitive and a PITA. All things considered, I should be able to trouble shoot this if there is nothing wrong with the computer itself. I'm no super talent, but I'm not inept either. This is my mission. My final frontier. Well, maybe not final...

Thanks, Ed