CCC friendly aftermarket cam for N/A 231/252

[ek02]

Both those cams are Turbo cams. You can order a custom roller from Comp and they will grind it to the same specs as any of their flat tappet N/A cams. The lobes will be shaped differently than the same flat tappet grind, but the duration and lift will be the same. A roller cam has a more rounded lobe instead of coming to a point. The advantage is that it pops the valve open and closed faster. I have a flat tappet and a roller, both with the exact same specs. When you bump the engine over you can see how much faster the roller opens and closes the valves. That's why I think a roller usually develops more power. The Comp 980 springs will not be strong enough for a roller. You would need the Comp beehives. 26915-12 for a mild cam and 26918-12 if you go a little more radical. Or, you can search valve springs on this forum and come up with other companys that sell good springs for a roller. For the grind Comp recommended I would use the 26915-12's. It's only .425 lift. I run the 26918-12 springs with 5.25 lift on a roller and spin it to 6500 RPM with no problem.

 

[MY85pontiac]

I think I'll go with Comp for the cam, lifters, springs, etc. I did check out the parts list at the bottom when i checked out the cam specs and they list the two springs you mentioned along with keepers, locks, push rods, lifters, timing set, seals, everything.

I looked but they don't mention it, how much does a cam from Comp usually cost?

 

[charlief1]

Don't go with comp lifters. They're noisy enough to cause the knock sensor to retard the timing. Morel are the ones you want to use.

 

[MY85pontiac]

If I go with the Morel lifters I might as well get a custom grind from Full Throttle since that's 275 and that's 20 bucks cheaper than an off the shelf roller cam from Comp. And I can still get all the other parts like the springs and push rods from them as well. Still one stop shopping, very convenient.

 

[ek02]

Early 2008 prices: Custom roller 312.05, 885-12 lifters 393.72, retainers 42.84, locks 18.05, pushrods, 109.75. The beehive springs came with my Champion heads. Like Charlie said, use the Morel lifters. My 885's are really noisy, but they rev high. You really won't need short travel high rev lifters. Full Throttle is a good way to go. Just be sure you get a N/A grind.

 

[MY85pontiac]

Here's the list of parts I'm looking at getting for this roller cam:
locks, CCA-601-12, $6
retainers, CCA-787-12, $40
valve springs, CCA-26915-12, $140
exhaust valves, SLP-V-4168, $10/ea
valve stem seals, SLP-MV-1888, $1/ea (.341 valve stem diameter, .530 guide diameter, viton material)
push rods, 761T8050805, $7.25/ea $90
timing set, I need a suggestion for this one.
Morel roller lifters and custom cam from Full Throttle, $355 and $275 respectively
intake valves???

What about a 3 angle valve job? Do the spring seats need to be machined to fit the springs?\

Thanks for all the help so far, you all have made me more enthusiastic about this engine. I liked the engine already but I'm liking it more and more now.

 

[ek02]

I run Rollmaster double row timing chains, but I think most everyone on here will tell you to get the high performance single row timing set from TA. You can run a stock tensioner with it and it will be quiet and dependable. I think the part # is TA_V1522B. $115.00. Those valve springs will fit the stock spring seats. I would do the 3 angle valve job if you are going to port the valve bowls. The stock intake valves will work OK if you are using stock type exhaust valves. The next step up would be stainless. They flow a little better, and there is a 1.770 intake valve available that requiers making the seat bigger, but it's more money and work.

 

[MY85pontiac]

I'll think about the intake valves before I make a decision, I'll probably stick with the stock valves. I checked the PN for the timing set and it's correct. Is that a single roller timing set? They give no information on it.

Estimated total for all parts, $1093. Not exactly cheap but for that much money I could only get a roller cam and lifters for my Cadillac 472, that excludes valves, locks, retainers, springs, seals, timing set and push rods.

This is probably overkill for my needs but, what about Harland Sharp rockers? Since I seem to be eliminating friction in other areas of the engine...thought I'd ask.

 

[ek02]

The TA timing set is a link type chain like the stock one, but with billet gears. It's a strong setup. Roller rockers are probably overkill with a mild cam. You need them when you run high spring pressures, and you want adjustability to get lifter preload set. The push rod length for your setup may need to be determined after assembling the engine, unless you can find someone with a similar setup on here. The best way is to get an adjustable push rod from Full Throttle and bolt down the rockers, adjust the pushrod to get the recommended preload, and then measure the length so you can order the right pushrods. If your engine does not have radically cut heads or block, the ones sold with the cam kit are probably OK. One other thing to think about is how to control the cam end play. Some swear by the spring loaded roller type, and others use the solid roller type that are adjusted with shims. I prefer the shimmed type because I had a spring break once.

 

[MY85pontiac]

I wasn't planning to do anything more than clean up any mating surfaces if needed, no milling unless it's necessary.


Any opinion on these pistons? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h521acp30/

 

[charlief1]

For what you're going to pay for them, check with Mike about a custom set in the 9:1 area. You can have valve reliefs cut in. If not that, there's a set of TRW NA forged on evilbay for cheap. I think they were priced around $30 each.

 

[MY85pontiac]

Mike from Full Throttle?

I could go with these, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-w450np30/. I'd like coated pistons but it's not a deal breaker.

 

[charlief1]

Yes, Mike from full throttle.

 

[MY85pontiac]

I got a reply from him saying he can't help me. Not sure where to go from here.

 

[ek02]

Try Earl Brown on this board. He can have any pistons that you want made. If you are sticking with the 4.1 plan, get the block first and see how much it needs to be bored and what the deck measurement is before you order pistons. You can get stock replacements in normal oversizes with 5/64 rings. If you get higher compression pistons with 1/16 rings, then you are limited on the ring sizes for an overbore. I have bought file fit rings for a standard 4.1 3.965 bore from JE. For a 3.995 bore, it's a problem. I had to use 4" file fit rings .005 over 4". They worked, but I was not real happy with them. A 4" bore is easier to get rings for if the block is thick enough to take a .035 overbore. Also, be sure you are staying with the stock stroke before ordering pistons. Stock type cast or hyper pistons are reasonably priced. When you custom order forged pistons, it gets expensive. Pistons, pins, and rings will be 700.00-900.00. For your level of build you could use a stock type piston and mill the heads .030 to up the compression a half point.

 

[MY85pontiac]

I'm keeping the stock stroke. I'm keeping the 3.8, I already have it and I know it's history and it's a blank slate to work with. It's never been rebuilt and still runs fine If I shave the heads I'll have to use shorter push rods, yes? I really want to keep the CCC system as it works fine but I don't have to keep it and I might yank it to make it easier to use a roller cam. Or I could just get an Edelbrock cam and keep the CCC system. I can always get a roller cam later. As for pistons I'll probably get these, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h521acp/overview/make/buick. I don't really need custom pistons but I'd like to try out these coated pistons and see how they work out. Or I could go with these uncoated pistons, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-w450np/overview/make/buick, 72 bucks for a set.

I just want a better than stock cam that will work with the CCC system. That's all I really want. I still want headers and port the heads for better flow.

 

[ek02]

Since you are keeping the 3.8, take a look at these pistons by Speed Pro, Part # H522CP. Summitt has them at a good price. http://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=H522cp They are available in standard and oversizes. They are hypereutectic and coated. I have used them in two 3.8 builds, and they worked great. The compression ratio comes out to about 9 to 9.5-1 with stock heads depending on head gasket thickness. I used .020 steel shim gaskets on mine for 9.5-1. They have valve reliefs also. The rings are stock thickness.

 

[MY85pontiac]

I looked at the piston you're suggesting and wasn't sure about them because of the valve reliefs but if you've used them, I could give them a go also. I have a pair of Fel-Pro head gaskets, 8723pt1, they have a thickness of .045-.055. I measured mine at .055, uncompressed. I was looking to use Fel-Pro gasket kit KS2662 but that seems to have limited availability, any suggestions on a good gasket set?

It'd be cheaper to go with a Comp cam kit, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k69-234-4. pricing together the parts in that kit with an edelbrock cam would be more 20 bucks more expensive and that doesn't include the price of a timing set, the TA timing set is 115 bucks.

 

[ek02]

Since you have the head gaskets, use the FelPro coated intake gaskets, front cover, cork valve cover, and pan gaskets. That cam will idle smooth and work with high gears. The 69-235-4 would be a good choice if you are going to run lower gears and a looser converter. If you want higher compression, those pistons are the way to go. The valve reliefs give plenty of piston to valve clearance. Follow the directions on piston to wall clearance. Hyper pistons use less clearance than stock or forged. They don't expand as much when hot.

 

[MY85pontiac]

Would the CCC system work with the 235? I looked at it and thought it might be ok but wasn't totally sure.

I'm already using PermaDry valve cover gaskets, they're great gaskets. Would you know the PN for the intake gaskets? I was going to use the valley pan gasket but if there are better gaskets, I'd rather use them instead of the turkey tray.

Also, I'm looking for suggestions on bolts for the heads, rods and mains.

I'm looking at piston rings and Sealed Power has a 33 dollar set of moly rings (SLP-E-369K30) and a 88 dollar set of moly rings (SLP-E-434K30). Not sure why the price is so different, both have a moly faced top ring, an iron faced 2nd ring, stainless oil rings, same thickness between the two sets,.