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434nova

Active Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
927
I was wondering if anyone knows off hand what these heads flow and what are there cc on the intake runners ? I called champion and spoke with Tom but he wasn't sure on the numbers and said he needed to speak to someone else, but it's been really hard to get back in touch with champion . So has anyone flowed there gn1s. Thanks
 
M&Aflow.JPG
 
What are those flow numbers? Intake or exhaust? What do head numbers mean?
 
Flow numbers that are thrown around on the internet or from various sources are not a rigid value as the machines, operator, weather and other factors vary all over the place?:confused:

Most shops have baseline numbers for the many different types and brands of heads and this will give them a measure of flow values for a comparison to various levels of porting.

For example compared to Paul's numbers above, we did before and after flow tests on a set of TA alum heads out-of-box and after a mild port job:

Intake @ .500 lift w/1.94" valve was 242 CFM, worked they were 255 CFM.

We later did a set of TA SE heads that went to 305 CFM at .500" with a 2.o2" valve and peak flow was at .700" w/321 CFM!

The ultimate "test" for the heads is how well they perform in the real world for the performance objective.

There are also other important factors in head porting that can, and will, have a significant affect on the desired performance such as port velocity, flow ratio intake/exhaust and other items.

It should be also mentioned that heads could have too much flow for a given application and this is where port velocity will come into play on a turbo application especially.

Many shops in the turbo Buick world have had years of experience in porting heads and also have had lots of field test results to "tune" their product and are able to provide a good match for the customer.
 
In 95% or more of combos with heads the heads flow more than the rest of the combination can. 230cfm intake on an engine with a small roller cam and 3 bolt turbo isn't going to run out of head flow very easily. 2.02 valves will help a lot if the throats are opened up to them as I recently found out from a reliable head porter but those gains will likely be minimal when bolted on a small bore engine. To take advantage of flow it takes rpm and displacement. How fast can I go with x,y,z turbo? How fast can I go with x,y,z heads? Same for intercooler and everything else. You really can't go wrong on the cam unless it's way off. Most never even come close to running out of head. Miles away.


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
In 95% or more of combos with heads the heads flow more than the rest of the combination can..........

Bison, you are spot on as the proper combination is crucial for any build, and the simple fact that stock heads and cam have run into the 10's many times proves this to be true.

Many owners get hung up on trivial details when it is so easy to take a proven recipe build that will give them more HP than they will ever use, and flow numbers are one factor which is high on that list! :)
 
Here's the numbers on my set:
1.9" intake. 1.6" exh.

As cast
lift int exh
.1 62 56
.2 125 108
.3 170 140
.4 202 159
.45 211 165
.5 211 168
.55 213 171

Econo port. Port match and bowls cleaned up
lift int exh
.1 63 56
.2 122 110
.3 177 144
.4 219 169
.45 230 178
.5 236 187
.55 230 192

Add chamber work Unshroud valves. Light runner work.
lift int exh
.1 64 52
.2 140 108
.3 195 144
.4 235 169
.45 237 179
.5 240 190
.55 245 196 (208 w/pipe)
 
Does anyone know the approx. flow on ported iron heads with 1.77 intake valves.? I am currently changing from iron heads to gn1 on my new build. I had 623 HP to the wheels but no gain in hp with more boost using a 6768 turbo.
 
Does anyone know the approx. flow on ported iron heads with 1.77 intake valves.? I am currently changing from iron heads to gn1 on my new build. I had 623 HP to the wheels but no gain in hp with more boost using a 6768 turbo.
5% less than what was posted in post 11. If it's a t04Z compressor you're about tapped out. 72-73 lbs/min and it's usually done and that's with the bigger compressor covers. But usually that compressor isn't done till it won't make anymore boost which means no wastegate bypass.


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
Cylinder head flow is a major factor but what about chamber shape, valve orientation and spark plug position relative to the valves?
 
5% less than what was posted in post 11. If it's a t04Z compressor you're about tapped out. 72-73 lbs/min and it's usually done and that's with the bigger compressor covers. But usually that compressor isn't done till it won't make anymore boost which means no wastegate bypass.


BPE2013@hotmail.com
Thank you..I was thinking I have plenty of turbo..its just that my iron heads are limiting me.
 
Thank you..I was thinking I have plenty of turbo..its just that my iron heads are limiting me.
If you have mid 9 sec power it's possible that a good set of aluminum heads could help. What was the drive pressure at flash stall and at the end of a pass?


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
If you have mid 9 sec power it's possible that a good set of aluminum heads could help. What was the drive pressure at flash stall and at the end of a pass?


BPE2013@hotmail.com
Bison, I'm not sure what you mean by drive pressure. I have peak HP of 623 at 5300 rpm on dyno at 28 psi of boost. Increasing boost makes no more HP. I have at 9" PTC non lock convertor with a weber 218 cam. When I ran at the track, I could actually feel the car stop pulling on the top end, it would just level out. I'm using FAST XFI and AFR was 11.5.
 
Bison, I'm not sure what you mean by drive pressure. I have peak HP of 623 at 5300 rpm on dyno at 28 psi of boost. Increasing boost makes no more HP. I have at 9" PTC non lock convertor with a weber 218 cam. When I ran at the track, I could actually feel the car stop pulling on the top end, it would just level out. I'm using FAST XFI and AFR was 11.5.
I mean the exhaust pressure. I suspect a valve train malfunction if it's laying over and you can actually feel it do it. What was the road hp by mph on the dyno? It's a much better indicator of what it will run in the quarter. I made 620-650whp with a 6668 (chitty t-netic cast 66) multiple times at 5200 rpm but it dropped like a rock at 5400 and couldn't keep up with the engine and boost tailed off. It needed more compressor or taller gearing to get more e.t. The 6265 I sell a lot of didn't generate much more than 580whp but it stays within 10hp of it for the first 8 seconds of a full pass. Less peak but a higher average. Same heads and cam and both examples were stock 3.8 GM short blocks. Did eighth mph increase with more boost?


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
I mean the exhaust pressure. I suspect a valve train malfunction if it's laying over and you can actually feel it do it. What was the road hp by mph on the dyno? It's a much better indicator of what it will run in the quarter. I made 620-650whp with a 6668 (chitty t-netic cast 66) multiple times at 5200 rpm but it dropped like a rock at 5400 and couldn't keep up with the engine and boost tailed off. It needed more compressor or taller gearing to get more e.t. The 6265 I sell a lot of didn't generate much more than 580whp but it stays within 10hp of it for the first 8 seconds of a full pass. Less peak but a higher average. Same heads and cam and both examples were stock 3.8 GM short blocks. Did eighth mph increase with more boost?


BPE2013@hotmail.com
peak hp was 623 at 92 mph and falls to about 570hp at 134 mph. I went back at looked at my logs from the track and noticed my PTC convertor is only dropping 100 rpm on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. I believe my convertor may be slipping. I went back and looked at some time slips and it looks like my 1/8 mph stays around 102-106. not much change with more boost.
 
peak hp was 623 at 92 mph and falls to about 570hp at 134 mph. I went back at looked at my logs from the track and noticed my PTC convertor is only dropping 100 rpm on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. I believe my convertor may be slipping. I went back and looked at some time slips and it looks like my 1/8 mph stays around 102-106. not much change with more boost.
It would depend on what rpm you shifted at to determine the drop. If it's dropping to 5200-5300 after a shift it sounds about right for what you have. You mentioned you felt it fall off in the quarter. If it's picking up close to 25% mph in the back half it's not falling off. 102-106 is a huge range for eighth mph. 102 should net 127mph. 106 should be 132.5mph. So a 10.5x vs a low 10.20. If you're running out of turbo gains will taper off as boost increases. If exhaust pressure is increasing at close to 1:1 compared to manifold pressure it's not out of turbo. Id expect exhaust pressure to be in the low 40's at the end of the pass. You're definitely not out of head.


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
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