CHECK your injectors! E85 injector gunk

[murphinator]

a spritz of WD to help w/ pump lube.
When I raced the fe rail, I used 2 qts of Klotz in a 55 gallon drum of meth...
:

maybe some 2 stroke tcw3 at like 500 to 1.to ensure cylinder wall lube ? its been going around forums...

here is a link from ls1 forums about it:

Been testing - LS1 Performance Information

a couple guys on one of my local forums have been using it

 

[TA49-WE4]

It'll be interesting to hear, [IF they'll even tell you], what's in the corn likker :

Well I went the ethanol plant today and I was told they don't put any cleaner of any kind in there ethanol. They only put a corrosion inhibitor.


However they only make the ethanol and do not blend it with gas to make E85 at this plant. The person I talked to didn't think that they added anything at the blending plant where they make E85 either though. He believes that they just add 15% gas to it and and rely on the gas to have the cleaner in it. I can't confirm this as I didn't talk to anyone at a blending plant.

I however can confirm at the ethanol plant they add no cleaner of any kind only a corrosion inhibitor.

 

[1outlaw]

One thing to keep in mind is that I have NEVER heard of this in an FFV. As an example mine has 214,234 miles on it--all but the first 19,000 miles and a few miles here and there (rare) are ALL on E85. The E85 I run has 0 additives in the gas portion (natural gasoline) and only corrrosion inhibitor in the E98 portion. Original injectors, never out of the car, runs like a top. Same for the Silverado, the Implala's, and our Taurus. Same for my personal S!0-- all high mileage. Several theories exist for why this occurs (but rarely) on these modified cars. Is it the additives in the gasoline portion? Is it pipeline drag reducer? Is it purely related to injector type? Is it related to boost or high compression?

Another guy and I have worked on this some for a while. It would be helpful to know ALL of the below- some does NOT help much;
1) where do you get E85--got a phone # for the station?
2) is it always the same place
3) if you put it in a CLEAN glass jar and hold to sunlight or white light-- Is it perfectly water clear OR does it have the slightest yellowish tinge?
4) how many miles driven?
5) how much time since you started using it?
6) brand of injector and any other data you have on it.

Give some background on the engine setup, what was done to clean the tank prior to starting E85 use and after a month or so, What filtration (in microns), what is the tank made of?

I have received some detail from a few guys- thanks. Unfortunately there is so little info or few reports is has proved impossible to conduct the few dots we have.

Right now I do not have interest in carb or intake runner deposit- these just have not caused issues I am aware of.

 

[TA49-WE4]

Another guy and I have worked on this some for a while. It would be helpful to know ALL of the below- some does NOT help much;
1) where do you get E85--got a phone # for the station?
2) is it always the same place
3) if you put it in a CLEAN glass jar and hold to sunlight or white light-- Is it perfectly water clear OR does it have the slightest yellowish tinge?
4) how many miles driven?
5) how much time since you started using it?
6) brand of injector and any other data you have on it.

Give some background on the engine setup, what was done to clean the tank prior to starting E85 use and after a month or so, What filtration (in microns), what is the tank made of?

1. I have bought E85 over a four state spread at all diffrent stations as this problem first showed up on powertour 2008 right after I switched over to 100% E85.

2. Not always the same place. However I would say 30 to 40 percent of the E85 that is run through the car is bought at three diffrent stations around my area.

3. Very slight yellow

4. Just about 5000 miles so far

5. 2 years

6. Racetronix 79lb's
Racetronix - INJL79 - 79 lb/hr Disc High-Z Fuel Injector

Engine setup is in my sig. Basic 1987 3.8 turbo engine build up. No magic parts or pieces.

Nothing really done to "clean the tank" Just drained it when I put my dual fuel pump setup in.

Gas Tank is made of steel.

What filtration (in microns), Whatever the fuel socks on the fuel pumps are. I really don't know and a acdelco fuel filter GF481C in the fuel line.

 

[1outlaw]

Thanks- what is your max boost and what is your max fuel pressure?

If you scoped your cylinder would your head and pistons have black deposits also?

The slight yellow tint means your E85 was blended with gasoline- not natural gasoline (denaturant) FWIW.

I will wait for others to post to see what they have.

 

[TA49-WE4]

Thanks- what is your max boost and what is your max fuel pressure?

If you scoped your cylinder would your head and pistons have black deposits also?

The slight yellow tint means your E85 was blended with gasoline- not natural gasoline (denaturant) FWIW.

I will wait for others to post to see what they have.

max boost 24lb's ( base fuel pressure is set at 42lb's ) max fuel pressure is 66lb's at 24lb's of boost)

I don't have a scope, but I don't see anything on the spark plugs. There is nothing on the exhaust wheel of the turbo either.

 

[Grumpy]

4. Just about 5000 miles so far

5. 2 years

could it be the car isn't used enuff

 

[justin84]

could it be the car isn't used enuff

My thoughts exactly.

 

[blackmonte]

I have run 4 different Injectors on mine all on E85 and were always spotlessAnd my car sits a lot, But I do run sta-Bil Marine in the tank not sure if it helps .And I run Reg. Sta-Bil in all my stuff,leaf blower,lawn mower,snow blower and weed wacker as well..

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Someone have a set of gunked up injs? Send them to me, and I'll flow test them, check for pattern, clean them, report, etc.
You pay the postage, and some $ for parts...

 

[bsdlinux]

LOL @ gunk from E85

 

[blackmonte]

They have to put the blame on something right?

 

[ronbuick]

Chuck will take care of your inj. and mine looked as new when I pulled the 42's out and put the 83's in, then I put my 42's back in til I get more pump to supply the 83's, I was running about E-90 or better for about 2 years, I sure would like to here
what you find out on your dilemma, thanks.

Ron

 

[1outlaw]

No one else had an issue?

This shows how hard it is to get data on this- pretty rare.

 

[austinibew145]

I had similar issue. I would guess I have around 30,000mi on this set up. I pulled the engine last night and found my injectors gummed up

 

[1outlaw]

Keep checking this thread from time to time:

Injector "gunk" and E-85 - Page 9 - evolutionm.net

It is looking more and more like it is tracing back to the gasoline used (or extra additives some put in) that is creating the issue. Some over the counter (OTC) and basic gasoline terminal detergent additives seem to be where this is coming from. I use only the C5 pentane denaturant for all of the hydrocarbon additive in my E85 and have yet to have any reported gunk even though this is what I have done for 5 years and nearly 10 million gallons. The natural gasoline is water clear, extremely low sulfur (1/3 that of gas), and is unadditized other than the normal corrosion inhibitor. Only drawback is that it is lower octane and has higher vapor pressure-BUT- I need less of it.

If you review the entire thread link above you will see where Buchnerj did end up testing over in PA and it does seem to point right at fuel additives.

 

[bsdlinux]

Keep checking this thread from time to time:

Injector "gunk" and E-85 - Page 9 - evolutionm.net

It is looking more and more like it is tracing back to the gasoline used (or extra additives some put in) that is creating the issue. Some over the counter (OTC) and basic gasoline terminal detergent additives seem to be where this is coming from. I use only the C5 pentane denaturant for all of the hydrocarbon additive in my E85 and have yet to have any reported gunk even though this is what I have done for 5 years and nearly 10 million gallons. The natural gasoline is water clear, extremely low sulfur (1/3 that of gas), and is unadditized other than the normal corrosion inhibitor. Only drawback is that it is lower octane and has higher vapor pressure-BUT- I need less of it.

If you review the entire thread link above you will see where Buchnerj did end up testing over in PA and it does seem to point right at fuel additives.

Good thread thanks for posting.

That makes sense. Apparently the E-85 here in central Texas is using different additives because I've never seen any gunk in over 25,000 miles.

I also use no extra additives even though I have thought about Lucas as lubricant but the 15% gasoline should be enough.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I'd also see if this is a part of the issue

Those on stock fuel lines

Aftermarket fuel lines

It's possible the additives and the stock lines are slowly cleaning themselves over time when the E85 is run through them.

 

[1outlaw]

I'd also see if this is a part of the issue

Those on stock fuel lines

Aftermarket fuel lines

It's possible the additives and the stock lines are slowly cleaning themselves over time when the E85 is run through them.

I would agree with that --particularly on older models AND from stations who converted rather than put in new tanks. It is likely there is more than one cause here. It sometimes takes many many tankfuls of a fuel to flush the remaining deposits thru a tank and meanwhile the deposits are going to build where they get baked on.

 

[bsdlinux]

I would agree with that --particularly on older models AND from stations who converted rather than put in new tanks.

Stock fuel lines here and both the E-85 stations here used brand new equipment, tanks, pumps, etc. I've used the fuel from the 2 different stations that are 30 miles from each and have had the same great quality and no gunk issues, etc...