Bought a rebuilt 4.1 from a board member and decided to open it and take a look. I found these metal chunks mostly concentrated around #2 main cap and under the 2 front pistons. Was told the engine just had the cam broke in (flat tappet) and then is was pulled. That looks corrrect as the pistons look new and the bores look freshly machined. The pieces look, feel, and are ferrous like iron. I looked around and could not see the origin of the debris. Anybody ever see anything like this?
Chunks in new engine
- Thread starter NM Tom
- Start date
turbofabricator
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2004
Looks like distributor gear pieces to me. I.E. cam sensor gear. Pull the cam sensor and take a look. Pull the fuel pump block off plate and look right in there. If there is no cam sensor with the engine, then look CLOSELY at the cam/dist. drive gear.
Did you pick these up with a magnet?
No cam sensor came with the engine. The cam gear looks fine. Now the front cover that came with the engine was only held on with 2 bolts so I'm not sure if it was the same cover as when the engine was ran. Will pull the plate in the morning, If it was the cam sensor gear will there be debris down in there?
turbofabricator
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2004
I would, ALSO, suggest a complete disassembly and inspection. Sorry, but, buying someone elses stuff, NEEDS a good inspecton. I don't trust ANYONE. Period. Even the highest priced, most engineered, most debated, piece of man made equipment blew up on the launch pad. I check EVERYTHING!
Are you sure it's metal. That looks exactly like the debris I found from my plastic cam gear. I thought mine was metal also until I tried to clean out the pan with a magnet and nothing stuck. Either way it needs to be disassembled for inspection/cleaning.
Steve
Steve
what chain is installed? if he used the stock tension adjuster on a roller chain-a similar condition would happen-it would have gotten eaten up- also explains the removal of the front cover-also i would ask the person you bought it from-he must know something about it.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Hmmnn..
Run "only to break in the cam", yet there's no cam sensor, and the ft cover has been put on w/ a couple bolts??
As 49-blues said: "he must know something about it." Probably does, and it "ain't good"....
Ken B. has the RIGHT idea... Pull it apart, and see what's really going on... Then have a little "prayer meeting" w/ the seller.
Run "only to break in the cam", yet there's no cam sensor, and the ft cover has been put on w/ a couple bolts??
As 49-blues said: "he must know something about it." Probably does, and it "ain't good"....
Ken B. has the RIGHT idea... Pull it apart, and see what's really going on... Then have a little "prayer meeting" w/ the seller.
Yea, it was picked up with a magnet.
Single chain with tensioner. Chain looks brand new as does the tensioner. Seller told me he saw it broke in and everything was fine. When I asked if it would need to looked at before installing he said he would just install and run it.
I bought a GM Quad 4 the seller said same thing. When I took it apart I found the engine full of sand, no drive chain for the balance shafts/oil pump and crank journals not polished. Trust but verify.
SouthernCal GN
I come in peace....AK AK
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2004
Brass gear
do the peices have a "porous" cast iron moon rock surface to them ? reason I'm asking , sometime ago I was inspecting a block after it was hot tanked and before it was to be machined . after sticking my finger in the corner where the outside of cyl sleeve meets the block . I was able to pick out rocks of porous cast iron "slag" from the area of a few cyl's . it's hard to tell by the quality of the pic but it looked alot like what you have shown .
Yes, it's is cast and looks alot like cast iron slag. I looked at the bottom of the cylinders to see if there were and pieces broke off but could not see any jagged edges. Will be able to see better once I pull the crank out.
turbofabricator
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2004
The factory cam sensor gear is cast iron, not brass. So are all factory distributor gears that I am aware of. If the oil pump siezed, then it could have fractured the cam sensor gear. Although, usually, it just shears the roll pin at the bottom of the sensor.
If the block has been sleeved, then it might also be the lower lip of the cylinder breaking up. I had that happen with a StageI 4.1 recently. The machinist had hammered the sleeve in, and had cracked the register machined at the bottom of the bore. I found it when radiusing the oil passages in the block and happened to look through the cam bearing hole and SAW the piece ready to fall off, into the rotating assembly.
It looked more like a broken piston ring, though. I tapped it with a screw diver (no hammer) and it fell out in two 3" long by .125" "ring" sections.
The peices look like cam sensor/distributor gear chunks to me.
If the block has been sleeved, then it might also be the lower lip of the cylinder breaking up. I had that happen with a StageI 4.1 recently. The machinist had hammered the sleeve in, and had cracked the register machined at the bottom of the bore. I found it when radiusing the oil passages in the block and happened to look through the cam bearing hole and SAW the piece ready to fall off, into the rotating assembly.
It looked more like a broken piston ring, though. I tapped it with a screw diver (no hammer) and it fell out in two 3" long by .125" "ring" sections. The peices look like cam sensor/distributor gear chunks to me.
In my case it was not jagged from something being broken off , it was more of a casting "clump" . once you get the crank out check in the little nooks and crannies where the cylinders meet the inside of the block. that's where you see alot of casting slag built up . sometimes depending on the casting finish of the block you just have to touch it with your fingers and it will break lose . I ended up getting in there with a sort of dental pick and cleaned it all out . and then had the block rewashed/hot tanked again before getting it machined .
