Complete DSE Suspension Build

[scot w.]

REAR DSE install

Okay here we will touch on the REAR portion of the DSE suspension install.

First I would like to touch base on the info gathered on the REAR springs of the old set up and the new DSE set up. On our old set up we used the Hotchkis 1" drop springs in the car.

Hotchkis 1" drop spring Height = 13.25" Tall

DSE Rear 2" drop spring height = 12.25" Tall

Rear Ride height comparisons:

"Old" Rear ride height = 26.75" (with Hotchkis 1" drop springs)

New DSE Rear ride height = 26-1/8" ( measured after the drive around) and in the same spot as measured before.




Now we will move onto the Rear suspension install.

Here is a picture of an Adjustable Rear Lower control arm installed and an Adjustable Upper control arm installed. These DSE rear control arms are exceptionally different over the rest of them out there today and the reason for that is DSE's patented "Swivel Link" tm System. These control arms actually swivel on one end allowing your 4-link rear end to articulate fully and keep all 4 tires planted on the ground. This was a speacial interest to me when I seen the demonstration done on my own car. Once the whole rear suspension was complete one of the guys took his hands and placed them on one of the rear brake drums and moved the whole axle Up & Down with ease, Then he had me do it and look at the swivel links to see them move. AMAZING.. and Not one bit of bind at all!!! DSE told me that when people box-in the stock lowers that it actually takes "Flex" away that was actually designed to be there in order for this 4-link suspension to work. It worked out fine in a drag application but not when you want to keep all tires planted to the ground.

DSE Rear sway bar install pictures:

Here is a picture showing the "Two" holes needed to be drilled to mount the bracket for the rear sway bar end links. (Used to only be One hole but the design was changed to 2 Holes)

Here is the end link bracket installed.

This picture shows the rear sway bar axle mount bracket installed..

Here is a picture of the rear sway bar end links that also incorporate the patented "Swivel Link"tm System. These end links are "Beefy" to say the least and they eliminate Bind!

Scot W. - GNS Performance - 865-680-4008

 

[scot w.]

Here is a picture showing the adjustability holes in the sway bar it's self! These holes are for moving the end link forward or backwards to change the ride of the car. Front is more for street and the rear is for a more aggressive ride.

Here is the bar completed/installed..

SW

 

[charlief1]

Couple of questions for you Scott. Can you sell just pieces of the kit or is it only available as everything or nothing? The other is can you give me the wire diameter of the spring and the rates please.

 

[scot w.]

I just competed in our anual RTTH event here in TN where we compete in an Autocross, Dragrace and a Speed/Stop Challange and the car was simply AMAZING!! It was flat on the autocross and still worked well on the drag strip.

We finished with the car at DSE on Wedsday @ 8:30 pm and I didn't get home untill after midnight, then Thursday we buttoned a few things up and went to the Dragon on friday and the Autocross on Sat, then the drag race & Speed/Stop Challenge. Pretty good for just installing it and one day later competing with it!!!

Here is a Picture from today in the burnout box, Give you a good idea of how the Stance looks right now.. OHH and just to let people know, There was two people in the car on 2 of my Autocross runs and also two people in my car on the drag race runs. So this should eliminate any "Does it rub" questions! Done all 4 events with two people in the car and didn't shred any tires, It was a good weekend!! :biggrin:

That time has been beaten! Now the best Speed Stop time on the same course, same lane, same set up has been 0mph to 74mph back to 0 in 9.70 seconds

(Photo's courtesy of John Simerly)

 

[scot w.]

Couple of questions for you Scott. Can you sell just pieces of the kit or is it only available as everything or nothing? The other is can you give me the wire diameter of the spring and the rates please.

I can do/sell you pieces any way you like! That is what makes this kit so nice. The average guy can buy parts at a time has his budget allows and end up with a perfect matching complete suspension that is proven to work!

I will call Monday morning and get those answers for you and post back here letting you know.

Scot W.

 

[charlief1]

Thanks Scott. I'll be waiting on an answer.

 

[Squid4life]

Scot, am I reading your caption in the pic of the car braking? 1/8th mile pass, with a 40 foot shutdown? Wow.... That is impressive. Hopefully no "thup thup thup" flat spots on those front tires! What speed did you have to come down from after the 1/8th?

Very nice install and parts, thank you for the detailed process and pics. Now, come on Powerball!

 

[scot w.]

Scot, am I reading your caption in the pic of the car braking? 1/8th mile pass, with a 40 foot shutdown? Wow.... That is impressive. Hopefully no "thup thup thup" flat spots on those front tires! What speed did you have to come down from after the 1/8th?

Very nice install and parts, thank you for the detailed process and pics. Now, come on Powerball!

Thanks!
There were cones set up at 100' prior to the finish line of the 1/8th mile then the beginning of the 40' box was set up just at the finish line and out 40'. We had to break right at or before the 100' cones in order to keep your car in the box. If it went out of the box at all it was a DNF. Think the speed was around 87mph and when I passed the finish line (start of the box) it was 36mph... HARD TO DO that's for sure!!

The whole reason for this was to get a baseline number for the stock breaks before going to the BAER T- 4 / SS4 set up this winter.

Oh that was my first and only pass of the day too, I'm sure it would have gotten better with the two more passes I had coming but I didn't feel too hot after being in the sun for three days and getting up at 6:00am every morning and racing. It finally took it's toll on me..

Drove it home without the Thump,Thump,Thump of flat spots!

Scot W.

 

[The_Six]

My stock front sway bar hit my intercooler pipes so I dont have a sway bar I wonder if I can get that one to work. can you use it in stock lower arms do they have an adaptor with it for the links.

 

[scot w.]

My stock front sway bar hit my intercooler pipes so I dont have a sway bar I wonder if I can get that one to work. can you use it in stock lower arms do they have an adaptor with it for the links.

Yes! They are working on an adapter for the use of the "Swivel links" right now and Every front sway bar kit comes with the stock style end links with poly bushings just in case you need to fit it to the stock lowers..

Scot W.

 

[scot w.]

Thanks Scott. I'll be waiting on an answer.

Charlie,

After talking to DSE today they said they would have to get back to me on the wire diameter. I went and measured the wire size of the DSE spring and also measured the stock spring wire and they are the same. I measured them at the very end of the coil using a tape measure and they both are 5/8" thick.

The spring Rates are as follows:

FRONT = 575 lbs.

REARS = 125 lbs.



Scot W.

 

[scot w.]

Allignment Specs..

I completely forgot about the alignment specs.

Once it was finished It went to the alignment shop to be done and it left with:
-1.1 deg of Camber
6.25 Caster.



Scot W.

 

[charlief1]

Charlie,

After talking to DSE today they said they would have to get back to me on the wire diameter. I went and measured the wire size of the DSE spring and also measured the stock spring wire and they are the same. I measured them at the very end of the coil using a tape measure and they both are 5/8" thick.

The spring Rates are as follows:

FRONT = 575 lbs.

REARS = 125 lbs.

Scot W.

Thanks Scott. That give me a starting point for what I have in mind.:biggrin:

I completely forgot about the allignment specs.

Once it was finished It went to the allignment shop to be done and it left with 1.1 deg of Camber and 6.25 Caster.

Scot W.

I do hope that's negative camber Scott. 6.25 caster may cause some wear issues on the tires though.

 

[regal454]

Caster has no affect on tire wear. Camber and Toe do. That is and aggressive camber alignment and will wear the inside of the tires (-1.1 degree) quickly with street driving. Looks like a good alignment for a track car, should help with handling.



I do hope that's negative camber Scott. 6.25 caster may cause some wear issues on the tires though.[/QUOTE]

 

[charlief1]

Caster by itself isn't a wear issue by itself but combined with the camber and the SAI design of the metric chassis you will end up with edge wear of the tires. This was a major issue with the last RWD Impalla SS cars. The cars had a tendancy to eat tires if the car was driven in city driving.

 

[scot w.]

Caster has no affect on tire wear. Camber and Toe do. That is and aggressive camber alignment and will wear the inside of the tires (-1.1 degree) quickly with street driving. Looks like a good alignment for a track car, should help with handling.

Yes that is negative Camber..

DSE is running -1.2 and even more on several of there daily driven test cars without wear problems on the inside of the tires. After talking to Danny Popp (4 time champion and who also helped XCESSIV set his car up) he say's these cars Love -1.5 to -2.0 Camber. I may up the camber at the track next time, That's easy to do with DSE's "Track Shim kit".. While I was there, I also spoke with DSE and their recommendations on this and they set it up where it's at right now for a starting point. This weekend I put right at 300 miles on the car mostly street driven and still no issues that I can see so far.

Scot W.

 

[83hurstguy]

I'm currently running -1.0 on my H/O, along with about 5.75* caster.

The car does tramline a bit on some roads that have had significant repair work done to them (aka grooved like heck). From a handling perspective, I am pretty happy with it there.

I have about 400 miles on mine this way, haven't seen a wear issue yet.

 

[scot w.]

I'm currently running -1.0 on my H/O, along with about 5.75* caster.

The car does tramline a bit on some roads that have had significant repair work done to them (aka grooved like heck). From a handling perspective, I am pretty happy with it there.

I have about 400 miles on mine this way, haven't seen a wear issue yet.

After talking to Danny Popp and John (owner of CCW) They Both informed me that -1.5 Camber is a good starting point for these cars and still avoid wear issues on the street. I pulled my front tires yesterday and I see more wear on the Outside edge from turns than wear on the inside due to street driving and I put on 300 miles in 3 days with the car.. I will be going to -1.5 Camber and see how it does. Good thing the Dragon is right here in my backyard! :biggrin:

Scot W.

 

[TurboDave]

Scot, have you adjusted the camber to -1.5 yet? Aughta feel even better.

Hey guys, I think I'm the only one that Scot has allowed to drive this machine since the new suspension was installed. Went over to his house to help unload it off the trailer, and he handed me the keys to take it out and "give it a try". He has a very bendy, hilly little road leading to his house so took it out there.

To say that I was "impressed" would be doing a terrible injustice!!!! Talk about "slot car" handling!!! It's hard to explain, but I've owned a few "handlers" over the decades and Scot's car easilly owns them in the handling department!!!!

Good job Scot!!!!!

P.S. Ya'll have to come over and drink some more of my beer!!!!

 

[jdsgnx]

Great Job Scott!!!!

Awesome INFO!!!!

let's see what happens after the Brakes get done!!!!!!!!!!!!

JD