converted 84 to 87 ECM....

[fgordon]

Seems obvious that at this point you should try replacing the ECM. I have a known good one you can use to check. You pay the shipping and you can borrow it. BTW-its already setup for the hotair car. I did the conversion last year and I'm now running a FAST B2B. Email me if you want to try it.

 

[84HAGN]

Ecm?

From what i read the ECM works fine with the 84-85 electronics
so should work with the 86-87 electronics.mine ran fine for 6 months with the 86-87 coil/ign upgrade with the 84-85 ecm
I think he has a messed up adapter if the wires are not in the right place
as he stated in an earlier post.
this is a plug and play setup there should be no problem
simply plug the adapter in to the orginal harness and then plug it into the 86-87 ign/coil and should run.
He stated it had the orginal crank sensor so there is no wiring issue there.
I would try a new adapter before trying bucks troubleshooting.
he has tried 2 modules and 2 coils they are not the issue .
The pink resistance wire is bull crap i changed mine and noticed absolutly no difference.
I will be glad to take a close up pic of the adapter so you can compare it to the one you have.
To see if all the wires are in the same place.

 

[luisturbog]

From what i read the ECM works fine with the 84-85 electronics
so should work with the 86-87 electronics.mine ran fine for 6 months with the 86-87 coil/ign upgrade with the 84-85 ecm
I think he has a messed up adapter if the wires are not in the right place
as he stated in an earlier post.
this is a plug and play setup there should be no problem
simply plug the adapter in to the orginal harness and then plug it into the 86-87 ign/coil and should run.
He stated it had the orginal crank sensor so there is no wiring issue there.
I would try a new adapter before trying bucks troubleshooting.
he has tried 2 modules and 2 coils they are not the issue .
The pink resistance wire is bull crap i changed mine and noticed absolutly no difference.
I will be glad to take a close up pic of the adapter so you can compare it to the one you have.
To see if all the wires are in the same place.

you did'nt notice anything by hotwiring the module? I have not done it either and have no problem. Just wondering if at top end would make a difference!

 

[O SO LO]

Just curious where others got their conversion adapters...

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

I got mine from Caspers Electronics. Never had an issue-plug and go. Brad

 

[fritz]

got mine

at Caspers as well

seems like its the adaptor

Knowing what i know NOW. I would have skipped(saved the$) the adaptor. Follow the wireing diagram. pull the pins & reconfiger

 

[Jerryl]

........... The pink resistance wire is bull crap i changed mine and noticed absolutly no difference. ........

Not to sound like an @$$ or anything, but I think the statement is unfair.
Let me explain my thoughts on this.

I have NOT yet replaced this resistor wire and have not noticed any "break-up or misfire" issues up to 24 PSI with plugs gapped at 0.032".
It is however very possible that the previous owner already removed the wire.
Having said that .........

"If" the resistor is in fact in place, it will reduce the voltage feed to the coil.
I notice consistently about a 0.5-0.7 drop in ECM voltage during runs, which must be the result of the required load.
Some may say that it is a charging issue, but I will tell you that the charging system is in tip-top shape, as are the grounds.

I can only guess that the voltage drop under load would lower supplied voltage to the ignition coil.
A drop in supply voltage of 1.0V makes a huge difference in output voltage! (Call it 3.5KV drop at the plug between friends :tongue: )
So, it DOES make sense to remove the resistance and get the full battery voltage to the coils.
With the added output voltage, I may be able to open the plug gap to 0.034 for a 24 PSI run.

Now, at 15 PSI boost, the Butt Dyno may never know the difference between 12.8V and 13.8V to the coil.
At 24 PSI, the Butt Dyno may still not know the difference, but I bet the engine will, as will the knock gage and the time slip.
Comparison testing on a dyno and/or track may be the best way to find out.

To me, it makes a LOT of sense and performance increase can be explained.
Besides, John Spina knows what he is talking about and if he recommends it, it is good enough for me.

Now back to regular programming. :biggrin:

 

[luisturbog]

Not to sound like an @$$ or anything, but I think the statement is unfair.
Let me explain my thoughts on this.

I have NOT yet replaced this resistor wire and have not noticed any "break-up or misfire" issues up to 24 PSI with plugs gapped at 0.032".
It is however very possible that the previous owner already removed the wire.
Having said that .........

"If" the resistor is in fact in place, it will reduce the voltage feed to the coil.
I notice consistently about a 0.5-0.7 drop in ECM voltage during runs, which must be the result of the required load.
Some may say that it is a charging issue, but I will tell you that the charging system is in tip-top shape, as are the grounds.

I can only guess that the voltage drop under load would lower supplied voltage to the ignition coil.
A drop in supply voltage of 1.0V makes a huge difference in output voltage! (Call it 3.5KV drop at the plug between friends :tongue: )
So, it DOES make sense to remove the resistance and get the full battery voltage to the coils.
With the added output voltage, I may be able to open the plug gap to 0.034 for a 24 PSI run.

Now, at 15 PSI boost, the Butt Dyno may never know the difference between 12.8V and 13.8V to the coil.
At 24 PSI, the Butt Dyno may still not know the difference, but I bet the engine will, as will the knock gage and the time slip.
Comparison testing on a dyno and/or track may be the best way to find out.

To me, it makes a LOT of sense and performance increase can be explained.
Besides, John Spina knows what he is talking about and if he recommends it, it is good enough for me.

Now back to regular programming. :biggrin:

makes lots of sense. I will probably hot wire it just to be safe.

 

[84HAGN]

Voltage

Jerryl
I agree 100% about the voltage to the coil more is better.
I was only stating that I noticed no difference and for the conversion process it shouldnt make a difference the car should still start.
I should have said I dont see where it is necessary for the hot wire unless you are running above stock boost levels.
OSOLO I think has a bad adapter as i stated a long time ago and he said that the wires where not in the right place according to the diagrams.
KIS(KEEP IT SIMPLE) people you dont need to change the ECM to do the upgrade the only wire needed to add for the ECM upgrade it the MAT wire
has nothing to do with the ign/coil module.
Sorry for the post about the resistance wire being bull was trying to say that it is bull to say it has to be changed for the car to run after the ign/coil upgrade. the car should still start even with the wire in place.
Like i said before the adapter makes it a plug and play setup if the car runs with the 84/85 setup and you plug the adapter in with 86/87 setup and wont start and he has tried 2 coils 2 modules than i would be looking for the adapter as the problem not the resistance wire.

 

[Jerryl]

............ Sorry for the post about the resistance wire being bull was trying to say that it is bull to say it has to be changed for the car to run after the ign/coil upgrade. the car should still start even with the wire in place.
Like i said before the adapter makes it a plug and play setup if the car runs with the 84/85 setup and you plug the adapter in with 86/87 setup and wont start and he has tried 2 coils 2 modules than i would be looking for the adapter as the problem not the resistance wire.

...... Agreed.
It was stated earlier that there is a spark, but weak.
I would think the car would start, unless it is so terribly weak ....
These ignition systems are not known for their stellar high voltage performance compared to High Energy systems, so I can see how it seems weak to the naked eye.

Do you think the coil could be incorrectly connected to the module?
This will effect the firing order, resulting in the "No Start" condition.

 

[84HAGN]

coil

Its a waste spark system so it would have to be really connected badly because 2 cyl fire at the same time should at least get a pop out of it .

 

[84HAGN]

adapter

In an earlier post:
I checked the power to the M and P connection yesterday and I do have 12 volts there at both...I ohmed out all connnctions and they are ok...I did notice that (according to a file i have on CCCI cobnversion) that on my adapter the H connection goes to H, instead of J, and J went to G or something like that--similiar to what 878don is talking about--they go to the crank sensor--mine crank sensor is still the 84. maybe I have the wrong adapter?...
Hence my adapter suspesions

 

[84HAGN]

Spark

And the post about spark:
I haven't seen any spark and if it is--it's very weak.
I still think he has a bad adapter.
The crank sensor is what times the spark correct?"I did notice that (according to a file i have on CCCI cobnversion) that on my adapter the H connection goes to H, instead of J, and J went to G or something like that--similiar to what 878don is talking about--they go to the crank sensor--mine crank sensor is still the 84. maybe I have the wrong adapter?..."

the cam sensor times injectors correct?
if the crank sensor wires are incorrect no spark hence no start.

 

[O SO LO]

pic of adapter...

Below is a pic of my adapter--you will notice that G goes to J (instead of H) and H goes to H (instead of J) thus like 84HAGN says--no spark. So... I need to get another adapter and have them check the two wires ...:frown:
The order of the wires is shown in the link that Jerryl posts above and you will find in the "Alternate Method" section #7 and #8, that those two wires on my adapter are switched--that is probably the problem...

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40071&stc=1&d=1199218470

 

[O SO LO]

Believe we found the problem....

Below is a pic of Brad Padgetts adapter compared to mine pictured in post above (thanks Brad)
If you look at the G and H wires (center by bolt)
you will notice mine (top) H goes straight to H and the G goes to J
they SHOULD go like shown on the bottom adapter (Brad's)
Goes with what 84HAGN states just above the pics...
THANKS for all your help guys--much appreciated!!!

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40098&stc=1&d=1199240551

 

[84HAGN]

Adapter

Glad to see you have made some progress.
Keep us posted and let us know how it all works out
Mike

 

[Jerryl]

Glad to see you have made some progress.
Keep us posted and let us know how it all works out
Mike

Mike,
Good call on the wiring!

 

[O SO LO]

CCCI adapter is being returned for another...

 

[gsbuick65]

I member about 10 years ago about some adapters going around that was wired wrong. I think from Poston

 

[84HAGN]

Updates

Any progress on this?