Cooling probs with Frontmount??

[DR. EVIL]

you'll have to ask Mease about that technical stuff, but I look at it like exhaust, air will flow much better through one 3" pipe than through three 1" pipes in the same area. Who knows, I'm not versed in the technical aspects of intercoolers.

I mainly am looking at the shroud design and the fact it is adjustable. The mease design will distribute air more evenly to the intercooler (especially to the top where the V4 may lack as much flow).

 

[zam70]

Hey Scott

I've got one of the Mease Performance 15 row ICs W/ adustable metal shroud on my car if you want to come over and check it out in person...great piece.

Give me a call
529 9192
744 0500

 

[Steve Wood]

No need to ask.

You can use a single 3" piece of pipe and it will flow the best but it won't remove any heat.

For the price, it seems reasonable to go with the latest technology rather than something that is outdated.

If KM is using new spearco cores, then the technology gap is fairly small and only one generation behind. If he is welding old cores together, the pieces are worn out from time.

 

[Spoolinup]

>The larger rows on the Mease actually flow a little better. <

Oh really, so your saying that stock cores can outflow extruded tube and fin? What did you use to get that statement? I never heard any claim that the stock intercooler core could go to 750 hp and then do it.

I will bet my car on that half of the V4R core will outflow the stock core at 15 rows and have better efficiency. Just because it might be bigger does not mean that it will have a better pressure loss and efficiency. There is tons of proof in that one due to FLOW TUNNEL TESTING.

Stick with vendors that are pushing the standard in technology and what buick guys are buying and showing great numbers with. I would watch saving some money to get a big stock intercooler, its not 1987 anymore. You do not see anyone saying the stock converter is the best for performance.

Not a slam against mease, I do not know him, but lets get real here.

I have the V2 and the CAS aluminum radiator with the stock fan. $550 and no more problems. You must live on VENUS to spend $1200 on cooling. (Its really hot there)

 

[zam70]

It would be nice to see a true comparison and not just speculation. Just because something is "new" does not make it better (at least in my book)...same goes for "new" technology. (remember the "new" Coke...jk) Let's not forget we all drive OLD regals...not new ones.

If we look at an intercooler the same as a radiator, larger but fewer tubes ARE better. I'd take a dual 1"primary radiator over a conventional 3 or 4 pass anyday (and have solved many cooling problems that way)

From what I understand, the stock IC was/is very efficient, just small (or just big enough for what Buick had in mind)

Not trying to start a war but the argument of "it's new - it must be better" doesn't do it for me.

The Mease IC is a really nice piece as I'm sure the others are as well. Keith has had testing done on his IC and it outperformed most (if not all) other stock mounts. Maybe he'll chime in here and post the results. (no longer have them myself)

I think until you're really pushing MAJOR power the difference is negligible. I for one couldn't be happier with my Mease IC.

 

[DR. EVIL]

I talked to Keith himself. They did test (ask KMease what the article was in) a few different intercoolers all on the same TR. Including the V4 and the Mease 15 row.

The Mease outperformed the V4 by a little over 1/10th. The 15 row has supported a TR into the high 10's which is probably faster than I'll go in mine.

I'm just relaying info I was told. I just want the best for my car, and its not a clear black or white answer.

ZAM70 Let's meet definately!! You have a VERY similar combo to me!

 

[zam70]

Get ahold of me...I'll be at home tomorrow (Basement FLOODED!)
Car is not driving at the moment, tearing it down for a repaint and interior redo but the IC is on the car. Call anytime.

 

[Spoolinup]

>It would be nice to see a true comparison and not just speculation<

Extruded tube has already been tested in a flow tunnel and came out whomping all over even the next generation of intercooler core technology, tube and fin. So, speculation is what you are saying about a stock core being more effecient than a flow tunnel proven bad boy. I can give atleast 5 reasons why it can not hold a candle, and did on another thread. The flow tunnel numbers do not lie.

And testing E.T. on cars is a horrible way to test atleast an intercooler. Good lord, there are way to many variables, one comes to mind,
60 ft on both runs?
Are they exactly the same?
If not, Houston we have a problem.
Just stick them in the oven at 350 degrees and lets see how that stock 15 row does with all that heat. Not real well I will tell you.

Would kevin mease put a bet on a flow tunnel test with 1987 technology verses extruded tube and fin? It has nothing to do with him but the product. Extruded tube would not be used in the major turbo diesel industry now if bar and plate was better.

You see, CAS has been flowing intercoolers for years now. You think if the old technology was so great he would not use it and save money? Extruded tube is expensive to tool on a machine, unlike bar and plate which is brazed together by people in mexico with sheet stocks.

Do not try to kill off vendors spending lots of money on new technology helping out the smallest turbo community out there to save $50 when it will not even compare anyways. As far as I am concerned, we are all lucky to have any vendor try to make better parts using the newest technology in this tiny market. Keep them coming as my old buick has tons of NEW improved parts on it to turn 10's all day long.

 

[Steve Wood]

$619 with an exchange for two 15 year old cores welded together? C'mon, let's get real. Most of the original ics already leak due to old age. Then you have the effects of fin bond deterioration....

Truthfully, the performance differential may not be that great on most cars at the moment because most don't test the capabilities of either one anyway, but three years from now when there are even more leaks in the tubes, you will wonder why you spent that kinda money on something that was outdated technically, and already worn out when you bought it.

It might sound like a good deal but it is not when you consider what you just bought.

 

[DR. EVIL]

......

I want whats best for my car guys, that's all. If it was clear cut, everyone would have the same IC. I know a guy locally that runs 11.3 on a STOCK IC with just the big neck weld on. So a totally redone IC and a half, resealed and cleaned with new necks and an adjustable (best designed IMHO) shroud can't be all bad......

If that "1987 technology" is so bad on the IC, I better get rid of that 15 year old engine too I hear those brand new Chevy LS6 motors are sweet!!

 

[Spoolinup]

>$619 with an exchange for two 15 year old cores welded together? <

What the, you can get $100 for your old intercooler on the trader. That means you actually will spend around $720 for that stretch. And have to wait with your car down.

Wheres the deal?

The CAS is an outright buy at $700.

Wow, this could not be any easier in my opinion on which one to get for sure now.

 

[DR. EVIL]

Originally posted by Spoolinup
>$619 with an exchange for two 15 year old cores welded together? <

What the, you can get $100 for your old intercooler on the trader. That means you actually will spend around $720 for that stretch. And have to wait with your car down.

Wheres the deal?

The CAS is an outright buy at $700.

Wow, this could not be any easier in my opinion on which one to get for sure now.

Well, my stock IC only has 50K miles on it, so it stays here no matter what. I'll either pay $125 core charge, or just buy one on the trader and have it shipped to him instead of me as a core. No down time.
Besides, once your in the $700 range, what's $20? Remember, I had the money for a V2......

 

[Steve Wood]

To compare a 15 year old engine with a 15 year old IC that is beginning to fall apart from old age is a bit ludicrous. You can rebuild the engine but you have to replace the ic core.

But, you have touched upon the point. Why spend money for something that is worn out, when you can buy something that is not only the latest technology but also brand new without the leaks that plague old cores nor the poor fin bond that reduces heat transfer efficiency? Let's stick to the facts rather than bs.

 

[AsphaltAnihil8r]

50k miles is alot, considering the inferior products of 14yrs ago.Heck they say to change your valve springs even with low mile cars,,but since you have 50k miles and my valve springs have 20k on them ,,do you want to buy them for your car yeah didnt think so

Do your self a favor these guys know what their talking about

CAS V4--plain and simple!!!
or you can but a Kenne Bell big boy --not

CAS V4
CAS V4

I have a PTE Front Mount

 

[Intercooler]

Get a nice honking V2!! You can do it!

 

[DR. EVIL]

I don't doubt anyones knowledge on here, I just want to weigh all the options. If I had ever heard that a Mease IC was shoddily put together and leaked, and had no performance gains.... I'd forget about it in a heartbeat, but I've heard only the opposite.

As far as the V2 goes, if it weren't for bad luck, Id have no luck at all, so I could see me having to buy a whole new cooling system after I get that V2. Besides, for my application, I'd never need more of an intercooler than a V4 or equivilent would flow (besides it's $200 less).

I also don't doubt the V4 core is the best technology out there right now.

Does anyone know how effecient the V4 shroud is in effeciently distributing the air to the top portion of the IC? I wonder if that Mease Shroud would match up to the V4....

My valve springs only have 2K on them

 

[Steve Wood]

It appears to be a fact that the mease unit is comprised of original cores. If this is indeed true, then it is also true that old cores get leaky as they age, it's the nature of aluminum, and the fin bond also goes away. You can take an original radiator and rod it out but it will never cool like it did originally because of the fin bonding. Most buy a modern core that works better than the original.

As I said, you probably will never run fast enuf to demonstrate the technical superiority of the CAS core but why spend almost as much for a core that is worn out? It is not a question of performance as far as I am concerned...simply the wisdom of buying a remake of something that is on its last legs for an equivalent amount of money. Might as well buy something that is at the beginning of its life cycle rather than the end. If it was $300, it might be a different decision.

I am sure you will be happy with whatever you do. I have a V2. The V4s were not available when I bought the V2. I would much rather have a V4 because I live in an area where it actually gets hot but I have dealt with the cooling problem. Stock mount location intercoolers just work better on street cars. Not too many of us running 10.5s on the street and that is the area where a front mount might begin to be better.

 

[DR. EVIL]

Originally posted by Steve Wood
I am sure you will be happy with whatever you do. I have a V2. The V4s were not available when I bought the V2. I would much rather have a V4 because I live in an area where it actually gets hot but I have dealt with the cooling problem. Stock mount location intercoolers just work better on street cars. Not too many of us running 10.5s on the street and that is the area where a front mount might begin to be better.

In street trim with no alcohol or anything I wouldn't be running any faster than mid to low 12's, so like you said the V2 is pointless for me.

Does anyone have a picture of the V4 with the shroud on it?

 

[DR. EVIL]

Hope you guys are right about that V4

....cuz it'll be showing up in about 3 weeks at my door

 

[Steve Wood]

If I go to the shop in the next couple of days, I will try to remember to take a picture of the V4 and shroud. The guy I share the shop with has one on one of his cars.