Coolingmist/Devil's Own h2o/meth

[Dust]

Definitely not on anyone’s payroll. I joined this site because there was more AI traffic than at turbobuicks. I am here to learn, and I have been here for over a year. I am sure if you really want to know you can ask the admin to look for my IP address. There shouldn’t be too many Japanese IP addresses in the database. I came to learn about AI for gas engines, and the TB community is the one known for running meth. I am also on thedieselplace, the snow forum, the aquamist forum, and the devil’s own forum.

I have no problem with the kit “being the best” for GN’s, but I don’t understand why other kits shouldn’t be used. I also don’t understand why the amount of a liquid in a tank makes one kit better than another. DO and Coolingmist and I am sure others have 100% meth compatible everything, so I don’t see why the keyword "water" on a website somehow invalidates a system.

 

[Grumpy]

Definitely not on anyone’s payroll. I joined this site because there was more AI traffic than at turbobuicks. I am here to learn, and I have been here for over a year. I am sure if you really want to know you can ask the admin to look for my IP address. There shouldn’t be too many Japanese IP addresses in the database. I came to learn about AI for gas engines, and the TB community is the one known for running meth. I am also on thedieselplace, the snow forum, the aquamist forum, and the devil’s own forum.

I have no problem with the kit “being the best” for GN’s, but I don’t understand why other kits shouldn’t be used. I also don’t understand why the amount of a liquid in a tank makes one kit better than another. DO and Coolingmist and I am sure others have 100% meth compatible everything, so I don’t see why the keyword "water" on a website somehow invalidates a system.

hmmmm ok .... Join Date: February 3rd, 2008 If someone wants to run a CM or DO who cares ???? let them!! it's THEIR car Not goin to answer the mix stuff.. thats already been beat to death to .. ohhh ya .. welcome aboard

 

[scot w.]

Definitely not on anyone’s payroll. I joined this site because there was more AI traffic than at turbobuicks. I am here to learn, and I have been here for over a year. I am sure if you really want to know you can ask the admin to look for my IP address. There shouldn’t be too many Japanese IP addresses in the database. I came to learn about AI for gas engines, and the TB community is the one known for running meth. I am also on thedieselplace, the snow forum, the aquamist forum, and the devil’s own forum.

I have no problem with the kit “being the best” for GN’s, but I don’t understand why other kits shouldn’t be used. I also don’t understand why the amount of a liquid in a tank makes one kit better than another. DO and Coolingmist and I am sure others have 100% meth compatible everything, so I don’t see why the keyword "water" on a website somehow invalidates a system.

"DUST" First of all your join date is publicaly posted in the upper right hand side of your post and it happens to say "FEB 2008" So it don't look like you have been here over a year!! And for your record! I'm on knowones payroll!! "It is, what it is!" Now let's move onto these hard questions you don't understand..

1). "Don't understand why other kits shouldn't be used?" ANSWER: Knowone said they couldn't be used! Why don't you try one?

2). "Don't understand why the amount of liquid in a tank makes one kit better than another?" ANSWER: Simple! The larger the tank the less re-fills = Travel longer distances without having to find or carry methanol !! I drove to BG last year 4.5hrs on the interstate one way raced my car at BG stayed in BG for 5days and drove back home 4.5hrs and done it all on ONE tank of methanol. The one that came with the ALKYCONTROL kit!! Anything smaller and I would have had to go find a place that sells methanol in a town that i'm not familiar with or have to carry some bottles of methanol because the lousy jug is too small..

3) A key word "WATER" is just that, Water! When a company promotes the use of Water or 49/50 mix how would that convince a buyer to buy one of there kits for the use of STRAIGHT METHANOL? all they have done was brainwash the people that 50/50 is the only way to go so they even went ahead and made there own pre-mix crap so they can proffit of it too.
I see the path they have chosen to take in the injection world and now they want to come in and try to say all there kits are the BOMB and can handle straight methanol. "I DON'T THINK SO!!"

"DUST" Your obviously the one here on someones payroll or there little pawn, so if your here just to question Julio's kit to others then I'll tell you what! Why don't you install one on your car and show us just what it can do! Other wise it's just talk. so stay out of here untill you or anyone else for that matter has proof with these other said kits.

NO PROOF, NO USE!! :biggrin:

 

[Dust]

hmmmm ok .... Join Date: February 3rd, 2008

lurker - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

3: to read messages on an Internet discussion forum (as a newsgroup or chat room) without contributing.

Just reading up until now. Thanks for the welcome.

 

[PaCemkr86]

We have three turbo buicks in the shop, that i tune, they all have different alky kits...

I am happy with all 3 of them, Alky Control, SMC, and DO's

 

[JC'sGN]

I have no problem with the kit “being the best” for GN’s, but I don’t understand why other kits shouldn’t be used. .

Don't know much about the other kits, and I'm sure "any" of the other kits could be used but the Alkycontrol kit has a proven track record, and the guy that designed it can be reach by phone almost any time. That seems pretty Buick specific to me... :biggrin: To each there own.

 

[Steve]

The Alky Control system is a great system but I will never understand the hostility against any other system or anyone that mentions another system. This is the only forum on this board where everyone attacks other members if that they ask a question about anything other than there preferred brand. I have been into TR's since the beginning and I have always used Limit Engineering turbos but that doesn't mean I should bash everyone that uses PTE turbos. I had a DO system on my car and it went faster with pump gas/alky than it did on race gas so I considered it to work pretty good. Just as a side note Eric at TT worked with me and burned a chip for the system that worked great! I ran straight meth in the system for 2 years with zero issues. I sold my system to a guy who is putting it on a mid 9 second car, so if his car run's 9's with the system will it then be the best?

 

[Junior Samples]

grumpy said it best...its winter...i should know, 15.5 inches of snow outside:frown:

 

[scot w.]

The Alky Control system is a great system but I will never understand the hostility against any other system or anyone that mentions another system. This is the only forum on this board where everyone attacks other members if that they ask a question about anything other than there preferred brand. I have been into TR's since the beginning and I have always used Limit Engineering turbos but that doesn't mean I should bash everyone that uses PTE turbos. I had a DO system on my car and it went faster with pump gas/alky than it did on race gas so I considered it to work pretty good. Just as a side note Eric at TT worked with me and burned a chip for the system that worked great! I ran straight meth in the system for 2 years with zero issues. I sold my system to a guy who is putting it on a mid 9 second car, so if his car run's 9's with the system will it then be the best?

"if his car run's 9's with the system will it then be the best?" << Well Steve, probably not! :smile: But it would be a start in the right direction to showing some real results with a buick.

You see I'm not bashing any kit really, I'm just simply pointing out that untill the DO,CM,Snow kits produce some real buick results, then they are just another injection kit with NO RESULTS! It's really just that simple!!

As Grumpy says: (NOT the shoulda, woulda, coulda's) Show some results or stand back untill you have some....

 

[Pablo]

As much as I want to believe that a PWM controller based upon a 0-5 voltage reading that is driving a 12 volt motor is "Turbo Buick specific" I have to accept the truth that there is nothing very specific about this kind of "technology".

The coolingmist guy himself came in here and said his pump will do 100% methanol but people keep insisting he is 50/50.. so what if his page says that. Some companies are willing to not make any limitations because they are willing to deal with a certain failure rate. The auto industry makes these kinds of decisions every day.

Bottom line, most of these companies use shurflo pumps. Most mod them, or order them with different parts, and some are now using pumps designed by shurflo specifically for methanol use. I'd like to believe that some of these guys building kits know more about pumps than shurflo but I don't know if that is realistic.

I'm amazed at some people that think there is some voodoo behind alcohol injection. Reminds me of people that buy into spark plug hype.

It's very simple. You have a pump, it pumps fluid out of a nozzle. You guys quoting 1/4 mile times as some sort of validation for a kit are probably the least educated since these kits essentially do nothing but hold a constant flow once you hit your max boost level. Especially if you are past 25 psi. A hobbs switch turning on the motor can accomplish the same thing.
The biggest need for a smooth transition that a progressive system can provide would be in a road racing/autox situation or the variety of transitory throttle states you encounter driving aggressively on the street. And when you think about that, the electronics necessary to do this are not very state of the art.
My RC airplane electronic speed controllers are more advanced than this. So I'm not super impressed by alcohol injection kits when I have RC airplanes flying with 60 amp fully programmable speed controllers, about the size of a 25cent pack of gum, running brushless motors and these speed controllers only cost 70 bux.
Im no EE, but I have to wonder about the price and size difference there. Especially when you can buy a bare bones 25 amp unit for brushed motors and a reciever for under 40 dollars total. These will run full tilt for a half hour straight no problem. Seems like very similar technology to me. I can understand that there is a much larger market for this stuff so the price is lower. But that much lower?
anyway, that's just a thought in my head. Maybe I am way off on that one or maybe the alky companies should farm out their electronics to the far east RC industry :lol: . Solder fumes are bad for you anyway.

 

[DMan]

Dee, Your not being bashed at all bud! these people are simply telling you what has worked the best for our cars and I'll tell you WHY.

1). The Coolingmist / Devilsown are Methanol / water mix kits that don't have a pump that can be used with Pure Methanol. Meaning you won't get the full benifits of Pure Methanol. meaning (most boost & most timing).

2). Here is a "Temps Facts" comparison of the Cooling effects using some of the fluids being used today in other kits.

Water Only results: Boiling Point = 212*F / No Flash Point!

Windshield Washer Fluid / Water = 50/50 Mix
Results: Boiling Point = 180*F / Flash Point = 82*F

Straight Methanol results: = Boiling Point: = 147*F / Flash Point = 51*F

** It is clear that "Straight Methanol" Will Evaporate the quickest ( Thus leaving corrosion out of question! ) and will do the best in cooling your intake temps and will allow you to run the most boost and timing over the other fluids. Though the straight methanol will require just alittle more tunning seeing it's a fuel, running straight methanol does alot of things over the other fluids.

3). Methanol/Water mix = No noticable differance in injector duty cycle..


4). Straight Methanol has an octane rating of 122 octane, now if it's mixed with water 50/50 you now have 61 octane. What would you rather have?


5). Straight Methanol lowers your injector duty cycle by 10-15% / Methanol/water mix practically nothing!


6). When selling a methanol/water mix kit.

**** 1) The seller sells the customer a kit that really don't need much tuning at all due to the 50% water mix= 61 octane. (Just add a small amount of timing and wala!) Done.

**** 2). The seller can sell a kit without worry of blowing peoples engines cause they don't do much with 50/50 mix!

7). The buyer that buys a Methanol/Water mix kit:

The buyer reads all this hype about how well those kits work and when they take there kit to be installed & tuned, all that the tuner really does is add very little timing and a couple lbs of boost and they think thats great untill they really want to turn the boost up and figure out it can't be done unless you went with more methanol!!

*Note: Methanol/water is only allowing you HALF the benifits of a kit thats designed for Straight Methanol. And that's the Big picture!


Hope this helps!
Scot w.

This post above puts forth a few misconceptions.

Water/Alcohol or Alcohol injection by itself does much to raise the effective octane rating. Even injecting straight water will raise the effective octane rating. It has to do primarily with water droplets being in the cylinder prior to combustion. While methanol does increase your fuel octane rating, the engines resistance to knock is strongly helped by the latent heat of vaporization (of both water and methanol, water being BETTER) and the impact of that physical state change from liquid to vapor going on in the cylinder as things heat up. Contrary to some beliefs - it is NOT good if ALL the water/alky vaporizes prior to going in the cylinder. You don't just want a cool charge. You want droplets in the cylinder, vaporizing as the explosion happens, damping excess heat, keeping knock under control.

Methanol/water mix having no perceivable impact on injector duty cycle??? TOTALLY BOGUS

There are *MANY* people out there who get very good results with 50/50 mix. If you need 100% meth, you probably have your injectors dialed in leaner than people who run 50/50.

While testing this stuff 10 years ago, water alone was enough to take my car to 21 psi boost with an old ATR 108 race chip. Don't say water doesn't help knock resistance. It DOES.

Any well thought kit will work, including DIY. Razors kit appears to be the most widely used, I like the progressive function, and it has good safety features.

ADIOS

 

[Steve]

"if his car run's 9's with the system will it then be the best?" << Well Steve, probably not! :smile: But it would be a start in the right direction to showing some real results with a buick.

You see I'm not bashing any kit really, I'm just simply pointing out that untill the DO,CM,Snow kits produce some real buick results, then they are just another injection kit with NO RESULTS! It's really just that simple!!

As Grumpy says: (NOT the shoulda, woulda, coulda's) Show some results or stand back untill you have some....

My car went 10.76 with a DO system and with only a spinning 1.78 60' on 275/60 drag radials, those are results. To me giving an opinion is great and what these boards are for but talking bad about another system or arguing isn't constructive. I actually do believe that the Alky Control system is the best choice for a turbo Buick but I also know that's its not the only way. Every time there is a thread about a different brand of system 50 people post and bad mouth the other system. Posting and saying "this is the kit I prefer and here's why...." great. Posting and giving negative and inaccurate info does no one any good.

 

[Steve]

Here is a pic of my buddy's 5.0 launching. It is a 306 with a D1SC Prochanrger and no intercooler running a snow alky system and 93 octane and running 9's! Like I said in the previous post I do believe that the Alky Control system is the best choice for a TR but there are other ways of doing it. Ignore the LT1 reference--he made this poster to help his smack talking efforts on our local board!

 

[Mr.Spool]

pablo,the guy's quoting 1/4 mile times are proof of results not just speculation.let's face it people buy alky kits to get speed results like buying a nitrous kit,i feel comfortable stating that although i rarely speak for others.in theory all kits can work with the proper supporting mods and knowledge.i went significantly slower on my diy kit vs alkycontrol,it doesn't mean i believe diy can't work for anyone,just my personal results.it seems my personal results are on par with alot of others on this board that buy alkycontrol and go faster or hit their goals and in most cases exceed their goals.it's not as easy as putting a pump on a car then your automatically going faster than ever,and i don't see the other kit's working so well for the masses,and i don't believe it is because they haven't had the chance.imo alkycontrol works and his following is well justified

 

[Pablo]

pablo,the guy's quoting 1/4 mile times are proof of results not just speculation.let's face it people buy alky kits to get speed results like buying a nitrous kit,i feel comfortable stating that although i rarely speak for others.in theory all kits can work with the proper supporting mods and knowledge.i went significantly slower on my diy kit vs alkycontrol,it doesn't mean i believe diy can't work for anyone,just my personal results.it seems my personal results are on par with alot of others on this board that buy alkycontrol and go faster or hit their goals and in most cases exceed their goals.it's not as easy as putting a pump on a car then your automatically going faster than ever,and i don't see the other kit's working so well for the masses,and i don't believe it is because they haven't had the chance.imo alkycontrol works and his following is well justified

Results of what? that they spent the most money on engine mods, and in your case stumbled upon a good tune?

You talk about magic... what you are suggesting is that there is magic going on. An alky kit merely pumps in alcohol referenced to boost. ITs that simple! how much more simple could it get. Either you tune for good AFRs to compensate or you don't and just hope you get lucky. A lot of people just hope to get lucky because they really don't know much about tuning



Once you are at full boost, above 25 psi, your alcohol kit is just essentially on like a light switch. If your DIY kit was slower then it had to have been in the transition to full boost where you lost all of your time. Aside from that, the only difference can be explained in a different volume of methanol being injected because of perhaps a different nozzle size, a different pump, a different amount of power applied to the pump. Thats all. Tell me what is different about the kit that you support once you are going full boost. How is it better able to make more power than the next kit at full boost?

Being that most of these kits use the same pump and nozzles I would like to know what is different. You can adjust the volume by increasing pump voltage or you can just add a nozzle. So what is the difference really aside from just getting "lucky" with a tune.

For all the people that have great results with given kits there are tons of people that don't have great results. For most its a matter of luck. For some its a matter of smart engine tuning. For the latter, almost any kit will work.

The issue of durability/price/fit and finish, is a whole different story. At this point I think these three factors are the main concerns. Performance with any kit is a simple tuning task.

Give me any major competitors progressive kit and once tuned I will run the same times with any of them. I guarantee it.

 

[Grumpy]

There are *MANY* people out there who get very good results with 50/50 mix. If you need 100% meth, you probably have your injectors dialed in leaner than people who run 50/50.ADIOS

Straight Meth will go quicker and faster .. Been proven many times over

Results of what? that they spent the most money on engine mods, and in your case stumbled upon a good tune?

Lot's of people don't have the "big $$$$ motors" including Melissa's .. Tune up is the name of the game not only with alky but also without (like years past )


ahhhhhh winter is def here !!!! Working on the Mazda so I put Melissa's outside .. 30 minutes later snowing again .. Don't tell anyone her car has seen snow .. soooo this post can continue with the winter "blue's" coming on strong :biggrin:

 

[Razor]

Results of what? that they spent the most money on engine mods, and in your case stumbled upon a good tune?

Give me any major competitors progressive kit and once tuned I will run the same times with any of them. I guarantee it.

Easy.. put your money where your mouth is

All vendors are welcome.. all kits are welcome..

TAI class at BG this year. It will showcase the fastest Buick on pump gas and see who's kit/system was run.

Guess the question always goes back to "Once Tuned" and getting that figured out

 

[PaCemkr86]

Straight Meth will go quicker and faster .. Been proven many times over

i agree 100% Dan

 

[bsdlinux]

Don't tell anyone her car has seen snow .. soooo this post can continue with the winter "blue's" coming on strong :biggrin:

I'm telling :biggrin:

For all the rest of you I have 3 words : Use Straight Meth

 

[Blazer406]

Easy.. put your money where your mouth is

All vendors are welcome.. all kits are welcome..

TAI class at BG this year. It will showcase the fastest Buick on pump gas and see who's kit/system was run.

Guess the question always goes back to "Once Tuned" and getting that figured out

That wouldn't be as much fun Julio..... just sit back here and watch the fireworks... J/K

I agree... come to BG.... and capture the TAI crown.... you'll have to beat Melissa or John C... if he comes to get it..... might be a few other contenders as well.... anything can happen.... it is racing after all....