crank question...

[turbo89]

its a hell of a lot closer to drop in then what you posted up !

you ever see some of the tolerances on the China junk ... nope bet you never even put a Buick motor together yet .. let me know when you've put 200 motors together with your own hands

 

[Karma 87]

its a hell of a lot closer to drop in then what you posted up !

you ever see some of the tolerances on the China junk ... nope bet you never even put a Buick motor together yet .. let me know when you've put 200 motors together with your own hands

A lot closer how?
Because he’s got the balancer and flexplate?

Or you saying the stock used crank he will most likely get need absolutely nothing checked or redone?
Come on come on... tell me, come on Haha

Since you done so many engines you should know that Modifying the flexplate and balancer for internal balance is not to expensive.
Right??

Now your just making wild assumptions.


You do things your way..

I’ll do things my way..

And the OP will do things his way

 

[turbo89]

A lot closer how?
Because he’s got the balancer and flexplate?

Or you saying the stock used crank he will most likely get need absolutely nothing checked or redone?
Come on come on... tell me, come on Haha

Since you done so many engines you should know that Modifying the flexplate and balancer for internal balance is not to expensive.
Right??

Now your just making wild assumptions.


You do things your way..

I’ll do things my way..

And the OP will do things his way

yeah drill more holes in the stock flexplate .. its not like there 30 years old and are prone to cracking from the get go ..

so put in that new crank .. blow more money into machine work to get it to work .. then swiss cheese the stock flex to work ... load it up on boost and see what it does.. BRILLIANT !

 

[Karma 87]

yeah drill more holes in the stock flexplate .. its not like there 30 years old and are prone to cracking from the get go ..

so put in that new crank .. blow more money into machine work to get it to work .. then swiss cheese the stock flex to work ... load it up on boost and see what it does.. BRILLIANT !

I felt it was a suggestion fit for a person like you.
Since you want the op to cheap out and get a used stock crank.
I figured you like it.

Anyway this is getting no where with you.
You not answering questions.
You’re just pissing around the bush.
Probably because you realized its not that much of a price difference.
Sense you want to cheap out on the crank.
Next thing you’ll be reusing old gaskets to save a dollar.
Your just stuck in your old ways

I’m done with you.
Nothing more to say

 

[turbo89]

I felt it was a suggestion fit for a person like you.
Since you want the op to cheap out and get a used stock crank.
I figured you like it.

Anyway this is getting no where with you.
You not answering questions.
You’re just pissing around the bush.
Probably because you realized its not that much of a price difference.
Sense you want to cheap out on the crank.
Next thing you’ll be reusing old gaskets to save a dollar.
Your just stuck in your old ways

I’m done with you.
Nothing more to say

I doubt he is building a powerhouse .. he has a stock crank already ...

even if the crank needs a .010 / .010 he is in it for peanuts and good to 500 hp all day ..

just cant understand why point him to $1000 bucks into a crank when I doubt he is building over 500 hp ..

guess in the end your right .. if he wants to blow a grand on a crank he doesn't need .. its upto him

 

[Karma 87]

I doubt he is building a powerhouse .. he has a stock crank already ...

even if the crank needs a .010 / .010 he is in it for peanuts and good to 500 hp all day ..

just cant understand why point him to $1000 bucks into a crank when I doubt he is building over 500 hp ..

guess in the end your right .. if he wants to blow a grand on a crank he doesn't need .. its upto him

I wasn’t even the one that suggested the after market crank to the OP.

Look back and see.

I just attended the picture so that the OP could see what he was try to explain to him.

And then you just jumped ALL over me.

Look back and see.

But sense you wanted to attack me with it I just went along.
Must be since I’m the new girl on the block.
I don’t know.

Seriously I’m not interested to talk with you anymore

 

[DOUBAD RACIN1]

You will always get someone telling you to convert to IC set-up, without understanding your goals.
My understanding is that you are building a hybrid to cruise, and want something different. You have already put in a lot of custom work and you are happy with the set-up. The engine is damaged but you are well on your way to you overall goal.

Yes, the 84-85 crank will fit in a 109 block, and vice versa.
No, the HA block is not “weaker” than a 109.
Yes, some have successfully used NA cranks for low/mild HP set-ups.
Yes, a forged crank is obviously stronger but there is additional work/cost because they are internally balanced.

Yes your right alot of fabrication, and i love my set up....

I doubt he is building a powerhouse .. he has a stock crank already ...

even if the crank needs a .010 / .010 he is in it for peanuts and good to 500 hp all day ..

just cant understand why point him to $1000 bucks into a crank when I doubt he is building over 500 hp ..

guess in the end your right .. if he wants to blow a grand on a crank he doesn't need .. its upto him

I doubt he is building a powerhouse .. he has a stock crank already ...

even if the crank needs a .010 / .010 he is in it for peanuts and good to 500 hp all day ..

just cant understand why point him to $1000 bucks into a crank when I doubt he is building over 500 hp ..

guess in the end your right .. if he wants to blow a grand on a crank he doesn't need .. its upto him

450 ish at max hp
I span a baring in my 85 and a buddy of mine sold me everything for a long block minus the crank, timing change, and camshaft for 300
So i. Wanted to salvage from 85 to 109
Ill take to machine shop get everything balanced and put it together myself in my shop With help from a fellow x soulja ...

 

[David Husek]

I was wondering if a 84-85
Hot air turbo engine crank work in a
86-87 109 block

Turbo cranks and 4.1 cranks have rolled fillets on the rods and mains and are the stronger cranks. Yes you can use the 84-85 crank in the 86-87 109 block.

Don't be afraid of the strength of a stock crank. I have a customer making 900HP+ with one and it just wont break. Quality engine build I suppose. If you decide to go with a steel crank, the Eagle is 4140 material, I would use a stock crank before that one. The Scat china crank is a nicely finished crank and of 4340 material, but it lacks in counterweight weight. One of a few problems with this it will need $200+ in heavy metal on top of the balance cost. I have been in discussions with them to rectify the issues since June of '17. Nothing yet. I have pictures posted on Facebook of this crank. I was hoping it would external balance but it still needed heavy metal. There are only 2 china 4340 cranks available now and worth purchasing I am aware of. They are more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Both are nice and are easy to balance. One of which is available thru Turbo Buick Performance.

If you need any tech help with your project, give me a call. It's never a problem. 516-285-1103

 

[chris kirk]

I felt it was a suggestion fit for a person like you.
Since you want the op to cheap out and get a used stock crank.
I figured you like it.

Anyway this is getting no where with you.
You not answering questions.
You’re just pissing around the bush.
Probably because you realized its not that much of a price difference.
Sense you want to cheap out on the crank.
Next thing you’ll be reusing old gaskets to save a dollar.
Your just stuck in your old ways

I’m done with you.
Nothing more to say

Making new friends, are we..... Next you'll tell the OP to use an LS motor.....

 

[Gary Durden]

chris, he has been removed by the boss, SGRIM.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Wow!
How did things get so far?

Anyway. Let's recap. The OP is building a nice little hot-air hot-rod truck to cruise around town in and to just enjoy himself with. Not a racecar. Or not even something he may want to build more power on later.

So, the OP should just build himself a nice, inexpensive, well put together, replacement engine, using a the109 block he has recently acquired, with checked and confirmed good used parts and some new ones. All in all, it will serve his purposes. He has been informed of the difficulties the hot-air set-up might pose with maintenance inconvenience. But he likes the hot-air set-up and has already completed a great deal of fabrication to make it work.

Is there really anything here to disagree with? Did I get this wrong?

 

[LSTTYPE]

I have a 86/87 109 Crank and rods that I might be willing to give you. The crank is standard never turned. It would need checked for straightness as it came out of a high hp block that actually cracked in the lifter valley.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I have a 86/87 109 Crank and rods that I might be willing to give you. The crank is standard never turned. It would need checked for straightness as it came out of a high hp block that actually cracked in the lifter valley.

With this kind of help and support, maybe we can convince this guy to sell off all those other toys and go what most of us idiots are doing. Go full blown Turbo Buick junkie!

 

[ShawnR]

The Scat china crank is a nicely finished crank and of 4340 material, but it lacks in counterweight weight. One of a few problems with this it will need $200+ in heavy metal on top of the balance cost. I have been in discussions with them to rectify the issues since June of '17. Nothing yet.

So a brand new "internally balanced" Scat crank isn't actually balanced?

And needs new balancer and flexplate? Well that sucks....

 

[David Husek]

So a brand new "internally balanced" Scat crank isn't actually balanced?

And needs new balancer and flexplate? Well that sucks....

No it is not Balanced.

 

[GNVAIR]

Since someone mentioned that the 4140 Eagle cranks are bad; I am curious how many have failed and under what conditions.
I certainly have seen my share of broken stock rolled fillet cranks.....

 

[bison]

I would have to disagree about the HA block being as strong as the 109 . All you have to do is look at the valley of each of them . Please explain how you feel the HA block is just as strong as the 109 .

When they break they break in the area around the mains. This area is the same on all the blocks from about 1983 up. I’ve never seen one break in the lifter area unless the entire block broke in half which would have originate in the mains. Plenty have been fast on early blocks. Please tell us how by looking at the lifter area of a block you can tell how strong the critical areas are.


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[pacecarta]

here's where they crack typically ..#2 main...and this is a 109

 

[dank GN]

I’m well aware of the common weak spots as I’ve had my share of broken block . They all have cracked the mains . Now as far as the lifter valley area there is more material there in the 109 blocks unlike the hot air blocks . There is also more meat around the the oil pan with more bolts . Now you tell me why would they just switch to a 20 bolt oil pan for last years of production? Did they just want to make new oil pans ?

 

[bison]

I’m well aware of the common weak spots as I’ve had my share of broken block . They all have cracked the mains . Now as far as the lifter valley area there is more material there in the 109 blocks unlike the hot air blocks . There is also more meat around the the oil pan with more bolts . Now you tell me why would they just switch to a 20 bolt oil pan for last years of production? Did they just want to make new oil pans ?

They didn’t change it to improve strength. The baseline stuff was good to at least 400hp and none of the production stuff to that point even made half that except the 84-85 which was a whopping 200hp. The 85 block is 20 bolt pan with the same lifter area as the earlier blocks. Why? My guess is they are constantly Re-tooling and probably didn’t have the later recessed head bolt tooling the later blocks used ready to go they just went with what they had for production. The deck height reduced and head gasket change. Could have even been ergonomic reasons for the change. Could have been to reduce time from foundry to assembly line. The later blocks have more machined featured that required less manual input. The recessed head bolt is beneficial as it reduces deck distortion. The oil pan doesn’t increase block strength. Why didn’t they go to 25 bolts if more is better. They had the space.


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