Crankcase Evacuation with the LT1 smog pump. How To:

[ttypewhite]

The funny thing is Nick, the ones debating the evac findings are the ones that have not tried it on their cars, and are basing their agruements their own view of common sense. I could never grasp that concept of debating something with no real experience with the product. Meanwhile a lot of fast cars are using them and giving the system the thumbs up. I guess the people that have actually tried it and given it 2 thumbs up are lost in the dark. Go figure.

 

[Nick Micale]

The funny thing is Nick, the ones debating the evac findings are the ones that have not tried it on their cars, and are basing their arguments their own view of common sense. I could never grasp that concept of debating something with no real experience with the product. Meanwhile a lot of fast cars are using them and giving the system the thumbs up. I guess the people that have actually tried it and given it 2 thumbs up are lost in the dark. Go figure.

I am so glad someone else sees this as well!

If an opinion is stated as such, that is reasonable, but to debate "theory" verses reality is something I do not understand?

Thanks for airing your thoughts too, as I wondered maybe I was the only one to see this or was being too harsh.

 

[Pablo]

Thanks for the encouragement Nick. The only thing the doubters bother me about is that they might dissuade someone on the fence from trying this. I already know it works so it doesn't really bother me if they don't believe it.

BTW I never pointed out to the above poster questioning dyno numbers that dyno numbers are highly dependent on a lot of variables. The type of dyno and whether or not you have locked the torque converter are two huge variables. I made sure my tq converter was locked for the dyno runs. If you leave your tq converter unlocked you are going to get much lower numbers.

 

[SloGN]

All of our 8 and 9 sec. engines are built to run with a vac pump. This also applies to most of other brand engines built to run these speeds or better.

QUOTE]


so you mean that the guys that are still running a stock engine with 20 psi of boost was built that way from the factory with loose rings gaps and other things to run those high speeds. umm no


To say a race engine being built to run with a vac pump is one thing. but to need a VAC pump on a stock engine @ say 20 psi of boost means that there is a problem with blowby aka a wore out engine.

to need a vac pump to stop major oil leaks means that there is a problem. Nick you a very smart man and have made some very fast buicks in your lifetime. i respect your views but i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this subject.


Flame suit one !

 

[SloGN]

I am so glad someone else sees this as well!

If an opinion is stated as such, that is reasonable, but to debate "theory" verses reality is something I do not understand?

Thanks for airing your thoughts too, as I wondered maybe I was the only one to see this or was being too harsh.

i understand that with a vac pump on a engine that it helps against pumping losses in the crankcase and also helps with oil foaming and oil suspension to help reduce drag on the rotating parts.


the way he is promoting this set-up is the only cure to sealing up a leaking wore out engine that needs some work to help control the blowby/crankcase pressure.

 

[Pablo]

when did i say it was the only cure? please quote me

I never said that one, number two, just because you have leaks due to crankcase pressure does not mean you have a worn out engine unless you refresh your engines after every pass like a top fuel team.

A buick putting out the power mine is has double the cylinder pressure of a formula one race engine. This is on 1970s ring sealing technology.. and you think you are going to not have pressure leak into your crankcase?

I never mentioned anything about a stocker at 20 psi, I was speaking about my setup which incidentally just coasted to a 7.3@87 in the 1/8th mile at like 95 degrees track temp popping a HG and letting off 3/4 way down the track after I spun bad as the engine came on boost.
If I hadn't been so anxious to run in 95 degree weather I would have probably been in the 6's with a completely stock long block (except valve springs) and 91 oct pump gas+alky. Thats stock from TB all the way to the inlet of the turbo. Not too shabby for a completely worn out engine. My fault for running it in such hot conditions.

 

[SloGN]

i'm wrong on saying that you actually stated it was the only cure to your oil leaks.


But in reading that very first post you have made several remarks about it almost stopping your oil leaks. so in conclusion ones that may not know very much will conclude that this is the way to cure oil leaks in a boosted motor without looking to see if there is something else is wrong.



But ya know it seems like there sure are a lot of buicks out there that are fast that don't need a evac pump to keep the oil leaks away even ones with some miles on them.

 

[ttypewhite]

I have not heard of anyone that has used this pump knock it and take it off their car. It works so well on mine, I got 2 now. 1 for each valve cover. This should be manditory on all boosted applications. If you grab a pump from the wreckers and get a Racetronix harness, you could have a system for under $150 once its on your car. Please let me know what the down side is to this?? I don't use it on my motor because I have problems, I use it because it works and assists in perventing oil leaks from the dreaded valve cover gasket once the beatens commense.

 

[Nick Micale]

..........so you mean that the guys that are still running a stock engine with 20 psi of boost was built that way from the factory with loose rings gaps and other things to run those high speeds. umm no

To say a race engine being built to run with a vac pump is one thing. but to need a VAC pump on a stock engine @ say 20 psi of boost means that there is a problem with blowby aka a wore out engine.

to need a vac pump to stop major oil leaks means that there is a problem. Nick you a very smart man and have made some very fast buicks in your lifetime. i respect your views but i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this subject. ........ !

I have no problem from anyone that disagrees with me, as there is usually more than one way to cure an issue, or even do something. Many of the things I have learned over the years is from people that have disagreed with me!

In the spirit of a "friendly discussion", I think that some of your logic is flawed.

Our cars left the factoy with NO adjustable wastegate, and the max boost was set at 15-16 psi. The Buick designed PCV and emission systems were designed with this in mind. Add 5 pounds of boost, and that is 1/3 more than the engineers design limit, and you could have internal engine pressure that could cause issues.

Now add in the factor that the original engines are 22+ years old and seals, gaskets and other items are subjected to the ills of old age. Even the pistons rings may loose some of their ability to clear oil off the cylinder walls due to aging?

Thanks for a civil debate, and being a gentleman is this discussion.

 

[unix_punk]

IM with Pablo and White here, I have the same type of system, just a bit more complicated on the routing and checking. Works great and would never remove it. I am in-fact thinking of adding another pump as well... First I will be trying a volt booster on just the single pump wire to see if that helps any. And as I saw someone note, this system is worthless without a checkvalve on the pcv line... NO PCV will ever stop boost from leaking in, they just aren't made to seal like that. The check valve needs to be a good one, those atr style ones are junk. I run a Kepner aluminum check valve and would never consider running anything else. Only thing is on the ford pump that I run it will allow air to get pulled back the other direction which means the PCV is not pulling a vacuum at idle, just sucking through the system in reverse. I am ordering a hefty -12an check valve to fix that problem so I get to see 5in/hg at idle as well just from the pcv.

 

[Turbo1dr]

Nick, you know what it takes to keep oil from blowing out of an engine. You also know that all the guys with these vacuum pump set-ups really need a engine rebuild and seals replaced. Tell these guys you can't just put a set of rings on a worn out cylinder bore and expect them to seal in all the boost. Tell them that most likely the cause of the excessive blow-by is the headgaskets leaking into the crankcase and the valve stem/seals are worn out on their 8 bolt cylinder headed engine. Yes, I know people beat the **** out of their engines with high boost but at the same time doesn't this cause more wear and tear on the componets...which would lead up to a engine that's needing rebuilding sooner? Super high lift cam profiles put excessive side loads on the valve guides... which wears them out sooner...which causes pressurised air to seep past them and into the crankcase. It's sooo simple to understand what causes blow-by, yet, people thrive on the idea that adding a vacuum pump actually cures their engine problems which in reality, they are only patching the problem.


EDIT: If I was a vendor, I wouldn't tell the people though...I'd just sit back and take their money and SMILE!

 

[Pablo]

Nick, you know what it takes to keep oil from blowing out of an engine. You also know that all the guys with these vacuum pump set-ups really need a engine rebuild and seals replaced. Tell these guys you can't just put a set of rings on a worn out cylinder bore and expect them to seal in all the boost. Tell them that most likely the cause of the excessive blow-by is the headgaskets leaking into the crankcase and the valve stem/seals are worn out on their 8 bolt cylinder headed engine. Yes, I know people beat the **** out of their engines with high boost but at the same time doesn't this cause more wear and tear on the componets...which would lead up to a engine that's needing rebuilding sooner? Super high lift cam profiles put excessive side loads on the valve guides... which wears them out sooner...which causes pressurised air to seep past them and into the crankcase. It's sooo simple to understand what causes blow-by, yet, people thrive on the idea that adding a vacuum pump actually cures their engine problems which in reality, they are only patching the problem.


EDIT: If I was a vendor, I wouldn't tell the people though...I'd just sit back and take their money and SMILE!

And those are indeed all factors that increase crankcase pressure. Unfortunately for your opinion, not all of us see the need to drop several grand on a buildup just because our engines are a little "loose". If I'm running low 7s and that is my goal, and the pump helps me reach that goal by preventing leaks.. then guess what, I'm happy. Why on earth would someone spend 3 grand to reduce -not even completely eliminate- a problem that can be solved for under 100 by using an electric vacuum pump. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
My car had a leakage problem from the day I bought it and I have put around 50k miles since then, running significantly faster every time I go to the track. If you would like to donate me 3 grand for a fresh buildup simply to reduce my crankcase pressure (because for that much I won't be able to go much faster without blowing out the bottom end) I'll gladly take it from you. Until then I'm going to be happy having spent a fraction of what you have to tackle the oil leakage problem.

But I guess to each their own. If the thing still runs, and runs hard consistently.. then mission accomplished. Been doing it for the last 50k miles, so thanks but no thanks for the opinions.

 

[SNOWBIRD]

Ok , Who Is Going To Market A Kit

 

[ttypewhite]

Ok , Who Is Going To Market A Kit

Racetronix already has. You buy your own pump either at the wreckers or dealership and you buy a Racetronix wiring harness. Go to Home Depot for rubber hose and T's if needed and get a proper Moroso breather and tie it all together within half an hour and Bob's your uncle.

 

[SNOWBIRD]

What about the catch can for pcv?????

 

[ttypewhite]

The pvc is a separate deal. I run my pvc the way it came stock (never touched it). The catch can is overkill. I had the catch can on the car and never got a drip of oil in it. I believe anything over 14 inches of vaccum will start pulling oil out the motor. I have got mine pulling 4 to 5 inches of vaccum. And I also got a $365 ticket when the cop saw the catch can under the hood. Venting crankcase pressure into the atmosphere is a no no in my area.

 

[SNOWBIRD]

THANKS,I cant seem to stop engine smoke from pcv no matter were I install my pcv valve,maybe if I could find a check valve that that would cut vacum at idle and cruise in half....example...16 psi at idle ,check valve or restricketer that that would limit vacum to 8 psi....LOL just dreaming

 

[turbo nasty]

I like the duct tape my self

 

[Rodney87GN]

Bringing this thread back...

First of all....Thank you Pablo and ttypewhite (for the diagram ) for both your efforts and help!

I finally got around to installing this LT1 pump setup, and let me tell ya it flat out works! Now when I hit 26+ psi I no longer get oil seepage from the oil pan, or oil coming out the dipstick tube. Before I had 2 open breathers and blocked the PCV. That worked good as far as not getting oil out the breathers....but sometimes a little oil was coming out the dipstick tube and always getting past the oil pan gasket from excess crankcase pressure.

Initially when I installed it the system didn't work properly. For some reason I was blowing the 20 amp fuse on the Racetronix harness every time I got on it. I guess when the smog pump ran it was pulling too much amperage and would blow the fuse. I knew it stopped working because I can see the oil smoke cloud behind from the oil blowing out the dipstick tube onto the crossover pipe. So I put in a 25 amp fuse and works great now. Otherwise it was easy to install, the Racetronix harness is well worth the money. The hardest part is figuring out where to mount all this stuff.

I admit though the catch can is a bit overkill now. Not a drop of oil gets to the catch can. I'm using Moroso breathers and I believe they have a built in oil/air separator. I also made the stock PCV operational again...the oil is much cleaner now. I don't think I'll ever run a street car without a PCV again.

 

[Pablo]

Rodney,

I'm very glad this worked out for you. I figured that if posting this thread helped at least one person it would have been worth it. Thanks for giving it a shot and enjoy :biggrin:

BTW, I just noticed you are in San Diego. I live up in Fallbrook (north county). I'm building up a new engine now, maybe I'll see you at the track once it's together. Keep in touch.