Do You Tithe 10% at your Church???

[GregInAtl]

QUOTE-Agent86

"2 Corinthians 8:7: "But just as you excel in everything--in faith.....
Christians are urged to excel in this grace of giving (2 Corinthians 8:7, above) by giving beyond what we think we can give, with an attitude of "eager willingness" and "overflowing joy." However, we're not meant to give foolishly to the point where it makes us "hard pressed" and unable to meet our needs ..."

Many great points and we are debating details and experiences at this point, and I wish not to harm the name of God by doing that. Let me DO try to explain why I feel so strongly the way I do;


You have faith or not, there isn't "kinda" faith. Faith has an alter ego, it's logic...logical faith isn't faith at all. The Lord does not like a fool, nor will he request us to be fools, he does require us to have faith to know him more. You can achieve spiritual greatness w/ effort, and planning, but w/o faith you will not reach His fullness.
If you can't write a check for 10% of your GROSS income because the money is only there for 9%, then you are not exercising faith. I have written checks for tithes as recently as this month in faith provisions will come. I do this regularly. It's foolish in many peoples eyes, however I have 800+ credit, never been late a day on anything in my life, and continue to experience things that not only prove to me I am in His grace, but have become a testimony to others.
If you disagree, I am fine w/ that. You will not be able to debate away my experiences however. I am a son of an evangelist who has seen first hand his fathers income 100% provided thru faith for over 20 years. There were times when it was dark, but we were never alone, never went hungry, and never lost anything to nonpayment. For those that trust in Him, He will never leave nor forsake. Faith isn't faith w/o trial, so expect trials and exercises in your faith.
If you are someone who refuses to exercise your faith, and will simply not tithe because your check book doesn't look like its there, you are the ones MOST missing out on the miracles that come from simple obedience. No where in the Bible does it say give when you can afford it, live so you can afford to give..... Most people who say they want to give and cant are the same worldly fools who try to make a deal w/ God about winning the lottery. If you were going to give 10% of the lottery, you'd already given 10% of your current salary. You will never be trusted w/ much until you can be trusted w/ little.
ex;
Jabez was blessed as the one of 600 of his own family listed in I Chronicles because he was willing to test his faith, and when he asked for more the Lord trusted him from what he did with little, thus his territory was expanded numerous times.

I always hate "debating" the Bible, especially w/ fellow believers, simply because my fear is someone will believe the debate and will not research the scripture them self and allow it to speak to them personally.
In closing I appreciate all the long writings that have come to this point on this thread, religion is a touchy topic and I simply wish people would look past what they see on TV, read in the paper and try to experience what the fullness of God is and can be in a local Bible believing church. There will be hypocrites, there will be liars, and there will be people in various states of belief. The great thing is church was created as a hospital for sinners to learn and grow faith, not as a country club for saint as some places would have you believe.

 

[RobG]

WOW? Remember Religion was created by the same minds that thought the earth was the center of the universe, you healed all ills by draining a quart of blood from the sick and you burn Witches at the stake. As man became more educated these beliefs went away for obvious reasons. Religion stayed because it was profitable to perpetuate the idea.
More wars and Human suffering have occurred in the name of Religion then all other causes. Most likely all the current conflicts and resulting deaths in the world today are the result of Religion.
Just treat others like you would like them to treat you and we will all be just fine.
To each his own

That's a sad way to look at life, especially if you leave your fate up to the guy next to you. And yes, throughout human history there have been many horrific wars and conflicts faught on "behalf" of God. But if you're willing to use that argument explain why millions more have been murdered by Atheist's ?? I can point you towards some good resources on this topic if you'd like for some better answers than just a few sentences here.

 

[SS_Sean]

JESUS ask for 10%. He will bless the giver much more than that. It's between you and GOD. Not you and the church. Just remember you are the church. GOD STILL LOVES YOU.

I would have to agree with this 100%. The Lord did not create church's, man did. The Baby Jesus will love you no matter what. Give what you can afford, and what you feel is appropriate, and your good to go. IMHO.

 

[mr_nate]

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[1dollardog]

I would have to agree with this 100%. The Lord did not create church's, man did. The Baby Jesus will love you no matter what. Give what you can afford, and what you feel is appropriate, and your good to go. IMHO.

Jesus created the true church during his personal ministry here on earth. Man had nothing to do with the origination of the true church. He set forth the ways and principals of the way churches and people as individuals should act. Being a Christian is to be Christ like and have the mind of God. The closer we are to someone the more we tend to think like them. Those of us who have been maried for a while know somewhat how our spouses think. The closer we are to God the better understanding we have of Him and his word. Jesus is no longer a baby. He grew up and became a man just like you or I. He does love us and would not refuse us if we come to him. Instead of doing what we as humans feel appropriate we should seek Gods wisdom and do what is right in his eyes. He has given us an instruction manual to use.

 

[stunnin6]

tithe

well put greginatl i'm honored to see there are more christians here not to say that i'm not honored to meet all my fellow g/n lovers, you are correct there is no middle of the road you are against him or for him . This is not a religion this is a personal relationship between you and the lord, you have to have child like faith in him and his scripture god bless you all

 

[1chance]

If money is the root of all evil why do churches want it so bad
Wrong! The Bible says (The Love of money, is the root of all evil!)

 

[stunnin6]

tithe

READ the previous comments that should explain why the church needs 10% ,it doesn't want your entire check, god bless you

 

[rtviper]

It is actually a realistic way to look at life. Yes I am sure atheists and agnostics have commited murder also but they probably dont try to excuse it by saying its Gods Will. Don't forget another word for faith is ignorance. One has no proof or support but accepts it regardless.
Again to each his own. After all these years of relying on faith even the most die hard believers have had to change their thinking on the biblical account of earth. Many knew it wasn't accurate and pursued answers. The believers continued to look for an Ark? Now the believers have changed their position on the bibles accounting and have named it Intelligent Design lol.
Basically OK you were right after all but it was still Gods work. Now give me some more of your income to stay out of Hell. Maybe many are still covering their bases just in case but it does amaze me.

 

[RobG]

So Joseph Stalin killing 60 million people is somehow more excusable because it wasn't part of some religious crusade The 20th century was the bloodiest period of time in human history and why was it so? Human beings decided in their infinate wisdom that there is no God, truth is relative, life means nothing and we're all here because of a cosmic accident. The resluts have been nothing short of catastrophic.

Darwin never saw the structure of a human cell under a microscope while he was alive but if he did I think he would have rethought his whole evolution theory. Just look at how a blood clot works. If we've been evolving over millions of years it's not unreasonable to think that some of our ancient ancestors would have bled to death from minor wounds or nosebleeds because those cells weren't quite evolved yet, right? Albert Einstein conceded to the fact that our universe didn't happen by chance but everything is balanced on a razor blade thick line. It's perfect. My main skepticism of Darwin's theory is where are all the transitional fossils? If life has been here for millions of years why hasn't anyone found those fossils that show the process of life evolving?

Anyway, if you're interested look up Dr. Bob Cornuke (maybe he's on youtube?) he had a show on The History Channel with archeological evidence of the Ark, Mt.Sinai, and other biblical artifacts. It was very interesting.

It takes more faith NOT to believe than it does TO believe.

 

[mr_nate]

Anyway, if you're interested look up Dr. Bob Cornuke (maybe he's on youtube?) he had a show on The History Channel with archeological evidence of the Ark, Mt.Sinai, and other biblical artifacts. It was very interesting.

It takes more faith NOT to believe than it does TO believe.

In June 2006, Bob Cornuke of the Bible Archeology Search and Exploration Institute took a team of 14 American "business, law, and ministry leaders" to Iran to visit a site in the Alborz Mountains purported to be a possible resting place of the Ark. The team did not include any archaeologists or geologists among its members.

The team claimed to have discovered an "object" 13,000 feet above sea level, which had the appearance of blackened petrified wooden beams, and was "about the size of a small aircraft carrier" (400 ft long), and supposedly consistent with the dimensions provided in Genesis of 300 cubits by 50 cubits.[12] The team also claimed to have found fossilised sea creatures inside the petrified wood, and in the immediate vicinity of the site.[13] One member of the team claimed that 'a Houston lab used by the Smithsonian' tested some beams and confirmed they were petrified wood containing fossilised sea animals,[14] but the name of the laboratory was not given. No one outside the expedition has offered independent confirmation, and apart from a few purported beams, no photographic images of this supposed Ark in its entirety have been made available (though short video segments have been made available[15]). The team's consensus on the "object" is not absolute; Reg Lyle, another expedition member, described the find as appearing to be "a basalt dike". [13]


I agree with rtviper.

 

[rtviper]

Stalin was an animal. His actual tally was about 20 million deaths with 14.5 million to hunger during the famine as he built the USSR to a industrial power. Though significant the number pales to the tragedies of the elimination of the American Indian and the enslavery of the Africans to the tune of about 80 million. It was Gods will and also God wanted us run the Mexicans from their lands in the name of God. If we are going to count the deaths from all methods like famine or disease then the count for the American Indian alone is estimated at over 60 million. Of course this was by God fearing people and the Indians were Godless.
Like all estimates the numbers thrown around are inflated to enhance ones argument. Suffice it to say millions died at the hands of God fearing people. To defend it with deaths by the Godless only underlines my position. Their is no distinction between the godless and the God fearing in spite of their claims
Darwins ideas like mentioned were before the advent of powerful microscopes. His ideas have been reinforced over time and scrutiny. No need to look at a cell; just look at our own evolution in the womb. humans go through a stages in the womb were we show our fish,mammal and feline ancestors.
What had Christianity to show for their years of searching for some small sample of support for the biblical interpretation? Well they had their day in Court where they presented their case to support the Biblical account of our Creation. Their entire Case revolved around trying to show gaps in evolution.
A Judge ruled You have offered nothing to support your case. Just because I am not Bob does not mean you are Bill.

 

[klrv6]

I have been watching this post for a few days and am trying to figure out how to respond without offending anyone.

I think tithing is important to the church, it's how they manage to function and keep the lights on. It's up to the church members to spread the word of God. I believe God wants Christian followers to to live clean, healthy lives before they need to worry about giving money to the church. Given some of the past discussions I have had with some of these posters, I hope they are on their way to a cleaner, more Christian lifestyle.

My wife and I attended a church in Lexington, Ky a few years ago. We became heavily involved in activities there. A new sanctuary was built and I was asked if I could lead a media team for worship services. I thought man, how awesome is it that I can use my talents to serve God in this way. Little did I know what the true challenge was. I had to deal with preachers that would get the service schedule to us as the service was starting, people would constantly complain about how the songs were displayed on the screen. One week it would be the text didn't contrast the background enough and that made song lyrics very hard to read. So, I would change it and sure enough the next week someone else would complain that there was too much contrast in the text and it made it hard to see the background. I felt like I couldn't win with anything. I one of the planning meetings I finnaly that the only people who could complain about a service were the members of the media team. If someone wanted to complain, they would have to join the team and see firsthand how hard it really is to get everything together and timing of slides be 100% all the time.

The real think that upset me was when I talked to the couple who funded all the media equipment. They were at the age where they could retire but, both had very good jobs at the University of Kentucky. They lived lives that truly reflected their love for Christ. These people drove around in junky old hondas and had no problem writing a check for $60,000 to cover the expense of the equipment. A local light and sound company was hired to bring everything together. I was irate when I found out how much of these peoples hard earned money was wasted. A VCR for $600 online selling for $89, MSRP on everything and equipment that would really never be used. The people in charge of selecting the company to do the work failed. That is why I can understand reservations about blindly giving to the church.

There were two pastor there who live completely opposite lives. One lived in a massive house, kids drove new cars, wife didn't work and he wasn't around the church that much. We all paid for his "stuff". The other pastor gave away every penny she and her family had. They drove a ford contour that had it's cd4e transmission going out in it. They couldn't afford another car and asked me to look at it. So here I am, spending $900 on parts to rebuilt this transmission, misc parts that were neglected for several years, completely scrubbed the interior, buff and waxed the thing. She came to pick it up and I gave her a hug and thanked her being the person she was. I wouldn't take any money from her. She was the type of person that set an example of what a true Christian should be.

The pastor at our current church of 8,000 members has sold pretty much all their furniture in their house and gives most of their household income back to the church and it's outreach programs. I find it much easier to give and support churches like that. If they are going to ask you to give, they had better be setting good example themselves.

 

[TexasT]

I have been watching this post for a few days and am trying to figure out how to respond without offending anyone.


I felt like I couldn't win with anything. In one of the planning meetings I finally proposed that the only people who could complain about a service were the members of the media team. If someone wanted to complain, they would have to join the team and see firsthand how hard it really is to get everything together and timing of slides be 100% all the time.

I find this type of behavior is quite common no matter the venue. The biggest complainers are the ones who contribute the least. I find that using the statement "Those that matter don't mind, therefore those that mind don't matter." It helps me 'get past' the ones who think the world owes them and their children something.

The real think that upset me was when I talked to the couple who funded all the media equipment. They were at the age where they could retire but, both had very good jobs at the University of Kentucky. They lived lives that truly reflected their love for Christ. These people drove around in junky old hondas and had no problem writing a check for $60,000 to cover the expense of the equipment. A local light and sound company was hired to bring everything together. I was irate when I found out how much of these peoples hard earned money was wasted. A VCR for $600 online selling for $89, MSRP on everything and equipment that would really never be used. The people in charge of selecting the company to do the work failed. That is why I can understand reservations about blindly giving to the church.

When you give and expect that strings be attached I think you are only kidding yourself. If you or anyone else wants to control how the money is spent you must be good at politics(Kinda reminds you of the government doesn't it?). To many, controlling how the money is spent is all about helping their 'buddies'(some more similarities, huh?)

There were two pastor there who live completely opposite lives. One lived in a massive house, kids drove new cars, wife didn't work and he wasn't around the church that much. We all paid for his "stuff". The other pastor gave away every penny she and her family had. They drove a ford contour that had it's cd4e transmission going out in it. They couldn't afford another car and asked me to look at it. So here I am, spending $900 on parts to rebuilt this transmission, misc parts that were neglected for several years, completely scrubbed the interior, buff and waxed the thing. She came to pick it up and I gave her a hug and thanked her being the person she was. I wouldn't take any money from her. She was the type of person that set an example of what a true Christian should be.

I think by doing what you did displays what a Christian should do. That said, the 'massive house, material obtaining' pastor is free to spend his salary any way he/she sees fit. Again, no one tells you how to spend your paycheck and his is given with 'no strings attached'. If you don't like this guy or he isn't living up to his contracted duties, I'm sure there are ways to do something about it.

I have an opposite story to tell about the youth minster at the church we attend semi-regularly. He had a car that was having trouble so the wife told them Id 'take a look at it'. The battery was dead, most of the air filter and associated plumbing had been removed up to the throttle body. When I questioned him as to who had 'worked on it', he told me he had removed it as it wasn't necessary(I'm thinking an air filter is necessary). I hooked up the jumper cables to turn it over and it ran sort of. We cleaned the throttle body and its ports and got it to idle pretty good. I took the battery home to try to charge it but told him he'd probably need a new one. The next thing I know he has a brand new Ford super crew pickup. I don't mind helping people out but if this guy has the coin for a new truck he can take his pos to a shop and have it worked on. So I took his battery back(couldn't get it to take a charge) and told him what I thought. This guy has a closet full of new clothes and I don't think I've ever seen him wear the same pair of shoes twice(All fancy leather tennis and basketball shoes.) This is the tip of the iceberg with this guy and I've talked to him and the elders about his poor examples(Bad behavior and other things totally unrelated to this episode and his choices of spending) but they seem to think he is doing a good job, and have done nothing about it.

Sorry to get off topic. I'm pretty surprised this thread has gotten this far as religion and politics are quite taboo subjects.

 

[RobG]

There's no justification for the murder of millions of innocent lives by whatever excuse that anyone has ever used. I didn't mean to sound like one was different from the other. My point was that when people are left to their own devices that's what happens. Jesus Christ certainly didn't preach a gospel of hate. Quite the opposite. You should make the distinction between what God teaches and wants vs. what human beings want and teach. We could go on for months of how people have perverted the word of God and the attrocities they have committed over the centuries in "God's name" but I want you to know that that is NOT what Christianity is about.

The other stuff we could go round and round with but I believe in "intelligent design" and in the Creator of that design. If you don't that's fine too, it's your life right?

 

[klrv6]

If you don't like this guy or he isn't living up to his contracted duties, I'm sure there are ways to do something about it.

It's not that I didn't like the guy at all. It's just funny when he would preach that the church members should give more to the church and yet all most people saw was more vacations and stuff for him. We like to see X Y and Z getting done as a result of giving. Nobody is perfect, I just expect a little more effort from those who are asking for my money. I don't have a problem with giving, I just want to make sure it goes to help people. Money is involved...things can happen.

I know I would be much more screwed up as a person if it weren't for some great Christian people I have met in my life. I don't give the 10% that I should. I know... I've got lots of catching up to do.

 

[GNBRETT]

I have personally never been to church but after seeing what kind of car a Pastor drives on the east end of the city I work in (Bridgeport, Ct.) I would not give a dime of my money to any church if I attended.

He operates an $80k Mercedes. What a joke. I'm quite sure he could get by with a Camry or Accord. People from all walks of life seem to get scammed into making those church donations. What a scam! A fool and his money are soon parted....

 

[klrv6]

Don't get me wrong, I love going to church. I just have a problem with clergy who have a personal agenda that involves getting rich off members donations. Tithing is about sacrifice and discipline.

 

[rtviper]

If your point was when left to their own devices that's what happens then what has religion done that's any different?
My point was religion is the cause of most of the worlds chaos. Every religion thinks their religious ideas and dogma is the correct one and everyone else is wrong. The so called Ten Commandments were nothing new as most Religions that ever existed had these values. The Egyptian Negative Confession contains all of the Commandments and existed thousands of years before Moses taught them. These are humanistic values that exist in all societies but Religions like to claim them as their own. These are basic behavioral standards that all groups or species need to exist. These rules are common sense.
The problems with all Religions opinions and Dogma is they are basically opinions about supernatural phenomenon based on gossip passed down orally from ones ancestors.
The world would be a better place without Religions. If they weren't such money makers they wouldn't exist. Their wouldn't have been a Holocaust, or most of Histories Wars without Religions.
What I dont understand is why does anyone need Religion? Why not just live together as one?

 

[Grimster]

I have personally never been to church but after seeing what kind of car a Pastor drives on the east end of the city I work in (Bridgeport, Ct.) I would not give a dime of my money to any church if I attended.

He operates an $80k Mercedes. What a joke. I'm quite sure he could get by with a Camry or Accord. People from all walks of life seem to get scammed into making those church donations. What a scam! A fool and his money are soon parted....

Keep in mind, just like people, churches are quite different from one to the next, something I've only recently started getting a grip on myself, my early years were marred by quite a few bad experiences with churches, mostly super conservative Pentecostal and Baptist churches. The crowning (and final) slap was when the pastor of the church I had attended some as a child and my childhood best friend's granddad (who raised him) was an associate pastor for years there, refused to marry my (soon to be) wife and I because we lived together. It was nearly 15 years before I set foot in a church again and I still don't trust them much. For the record I'm still married to that same girl and have a great marriage and a 7 year old son (we weren't getting married cause we had to, and we had no children until several years after we married).

So just remember not all churches are scummy, but it sometimes seems like more are than aren't.