Dyno #'s running 93 & alchy...Good or bad?

[Razor]

Dirty K&N .. possible.

A year ago I dropped from 113-114 down to 109. after 5 passes and knowing nothing was changed on the car.. I pulled the airfilter and it picked back up. I since no longer run a ram air style filter.

The drivability will change with the work done on the motor. Obviously the MAF tables are now no longer what GM intended. But at WOT.. thats another thing.

Put the car at 20 PSI and get it making the power it should at the correct airfuel ratio.. and work your way up.. if the power starts dropping off.. find out why.

Lots of guessing?

 

[87buick3825]

Six gun .... ever run your car in the 1/4 ???? If ya look around in here there are lots of people that should be running faster than thier signatures "mod's" ya I only run in the 13s but my friends friend cousin Vinny is flyin

RD

 

[The Darkside]

Thanks Razor, I'll take the filter off & get a closer look. I'm running the big mouth cold air kit & my filter sits right behind my front air dam less than a foot from the ground. It looks pretty dirty. Will re-adjust boost & see what kind of egt's, etc I get too....
What about the extender chip needing changes since changing since motor upgrades?


The Darkside

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by The Darkside
Thanks Razor, I'll take the filter off & get a closer look. I'm running the big mouth cold air kit & my filter sits right behind my front air dam less than a foot from the ground. It looks pretty dirty. Will re-adjust boost & see what kind of egt's, etc I get too....
What about the extender chip needing changes since changing since motor upgrades?


The Darkside

No problem.

Drive the car around while watching your BLM's. They always should hover +-10 from 128. While decel, while accell, while cruising, etc.. If so.. nothing to do. Your translator should make up for any adjustment issue, as well as the programming features of the chip.

You need toget some track time, and post numbers to determine how its making power down the track.

Keep an eye on your knock sensor, play it safe.

Cheers

 

[turbo2nr]

Just like bruce said, 1/3 water, 2/3 methanol is the way to go. Read a book titled "turbochargers" by Hugh MacInnes. You can get it from Summit, Jeggs, etc. Anyone who is will argue about the benifits from alchohol/methanol/water inj. is an idiot for not knowing the facts!

 

[Razor]

Grandnat, no problem.

I'm old enough to trash talk too

Innovation comes from doing not whining And to say something doesnt work.. man I tell ya.. its tough not to go..ok..whatever. Your entitled to your opinion..

Think sixguns problem comes from bad data. When you dont know or tried better.. I understand where he's coming from. Think when he said Denatured.. then mentioned Methanol.. I too deal with a lot of skeptics. BTW both are alcohol.

Its like a 10 second Honda.. I hear about plenty of them.. yet in the heat.. i've never seen one drive to the track..lay the number.. and drive home. Your more than welcome to come down to our slick track in 95 degree weather and show me how it gets done on 93 by itself. Love to see a 1.41 on a 10 inch tire after 20 imports do their dirty deed to the starting line.

While i'd like to show ya'll hows it done.. Oklahoma is a stretch. make it to BG next year and I'll run ya for dinner.

Geno went 10.7's on 92 octane gas in his car. Went 10.15 on alcohol third time out to the track. Best pass has been a 9.98 on C16. He's faster than both of ya'll on 92 octane.. does he say alcohol sucks.. does he say I went faster on c16... Money saved on C16 buys a lot of mods.. 10.1's on a car thats driven on the street is a pretty hefty number. I wont get into the 02 fouling issue, C16 availabilty/costs, storage, transportation,...

Guys are missing the boat... But thats my opinion.

Peace

 

[Grandnat]

Originally posted by Razor
Grandnat, no problem.

I'm old enough to trash talk too

Innovation comes from doing not whining And to say something doesnt work.. man I tell ya.. its tough not to go..ok..whatever. Your entitled to your opinion..

Think sixguns problem comes from bad data. When you dont know or tried better.. I understand where he's coming from. Think when he said Denatured.. then mentioned Methanol.. I too deal with a lot of skeptics. BTW both are alcohol.

Its like a 10 second Honda.. I hear about plenty of them.. yet in the heat.. i've never seen one drive to the track..lay the number.. and drive home. Your more than welcome to come down to our slick track in 95 degree weather and show me how it gets done on 93 by itself. Love to see a 1.41 on a 10 inch tire after 20 imports do their dirty deed to the starting line.

While i'd like to show ya'll hows it done.. Oklahoma is a stretch. make it to BG next year and I'll run ya for dinner.

Geno went 10.7's on 92 octane gas in his car. Went 10.15 on alcohol third time out to the track. Best pass has been a 9.98 on C16. He's faster than both of ya'll on 92 octane.. does he say alcohol sucks.. does he say I went faster on c16... Money saved on C16 buys a lot of mods.. 10.1's on a car thats driven on the street is a pretty hefty number. I wont get into the 02 fouling issue, C16 availabilty/costs, storage, transportation,...

Guys are missing the boat... But thats my opinion.

Peace

Just to clarify, I didn't say alky sucked.

I said I had a crappy kit and that I didn't like refilling the alky tank.

Just a personal prefference.

I think it is more impressive to run the numbers on pump gas alone. That is all, and that is JUST my opinion.

 

[TurboCustomz]

For the record. Alky doesnt really replace octane. It doesnt have to. The reason high octane works so well is because it is a more stable fuel. When the cyl. temps increase with added boost, pump gas can predetonate because of those higher temps. Race gas being more stable can take the increase cyl. temps without combusting before the spark is generated. When the alky reduces the air temp, it allows you to run more boost without the temps breaking that detonation point.

With that being said, Alky IS a fuel, cars can run off of it.

 

[sixgun86gn]

I will add this now.

Methanol isn't at every gas pump either.

Razor,I never even seen one of your kits on a car here.The SMC is what I am familiar with.I beleive this is what is on Darksides car?

Now that being said,like my boy Grandnat will tell you it is a full weight STREET car'cept I never drive it anymore because I get in alot of trouble with it and streetracing here in Dallas has become VERY expensive.

Maybe I am misinformed,but i do see alot of cars hurt from using alky.Not to say it is the alcohol that did it,but they think they can be superman on the stuff.Lots of newbies try to use it without understanding it first.I had marginal success with it,just not the success that I wanted.I got it from race gas though an never lost a HG since.

Geno has a stge 2 car,not me.Greg Kring a local stage 2 guy here could run those numbers without the alky,trust me.

You truly do run an impressive 1/4mile if you really are all stock under the valve covers.I don't see these other modded guys with alky running that kind of time.You should show them how.Great trash talk too.Haven't had a good time like this in a while.

I will be open minded if you care to inform me better,I didn't mean that you were fighting to sell alky kits.I was saying you were trying to get me to bet,like street racers do with the "oh I'm all stock and can beat you" talk.I am very familiar with it.You should see my car.It looks like a heap and rolls on the cheapest ,crappiest looking steel wheels I could find.Others call them Nascar wheels because they are all black.If you don't beleive me Grandnat will back me up on it.I have made a few $$ off of it and a few mods paid for by it too.

For whoever asked yes I have run the car in the 1/4 but last time was with the old 3.8 and the 4.1 I have now is just a few hunred miles old and not fully tuned out yet.Last time was at Temple academy dragway in April with 100*+ temps.The start line sucked all I could 60' with slicks was 1.85s. Ran the 1/8 in the 7.2-7.3 range all day and 11.20s @ 125-126 mph all day.Almost made it to the final in the bracket race too.Truly a back country track.Apparently the E.T.s in my sig are being overlooked.As they should be they are slower than I have been lately.

 

[SloGN]

RE-dyno

hey darkside.


i think those #'s are pretty good. i have about the same combo except i have a .40 over motor with cleaned up heads. and a stock I/C wuth a big neck . i was thinking my combo would net me about 395-405 RWhp with 425-435 rwtq @ 25 psi with ALKY. i dunno i might be more might be less.

 

[sixgun86gn]

BTW. I see your advice to Darkside, Razor and could not agree with you more.

Where were you when i was killing myself trying to keep headgaskets on the car with alky?I probably could have gotten much further than I did.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
BTW. I see your advice to Darkside, Razor and could not agree with you more.

Where were you when i was killing myself trying to keep headgaskets on the car with alky?I probably could have gotten much further than I did.

Thanks..

Where was I .. developing a better mouse trap

When the cars run this fast one starts feeling like superman. And all of us know we're on borrowed time. Its the price to ride the coaster. And once you taste speed.. doesnt matter what happens or what it costs.

My car has some heads I picked up cheap. Back in Jan my tranny flared hard on the 2-3 and it hit the rev limiter(6100) while running 29-30 PSI..cut fuel..poof went my very first set. From there bad machine shop issues.. poof went another a month latter.. ended up heads were .007 off. I'd like a bigger cam, a built bottom end, etc etc.. just gotta make do with what I have. Hence why I try and squeeze the most out of so little.

Race gas here has gotten real expensive, C16 is at 9.00 a gallon. Place is open short hours, tough to get to during regular hours. 5 gallons of methanol lasts me 3 months at a cost of 12.50(2.50 per). Its just a neat thing to drive with a power adder thats inexpensive. While great to see a car run 20 PSI on straight pump gas and make numbers happen. Same car will go an easy 6 PSI more. Can you compare what one runs at 20 vs 26.. no way. And so what if it can go a little faster possibly on C16.. the grief factor to me is not worth it anymore.

Metco has a 6 gallon trunk cell.. you'd fill that once every 4 months. The stock GN tank holds a gallon.. at 6-8 ounces per pass.. thats 15 passes at higher boost for a cost of $2.50.

Just a different twist to an older concept. An alky kits costs what your doublepumper costs.. and no headaches. I'm running a 307 fuelpump in mine..not even a 340. Thats how much fuel i'm adding with the kit.

Cheers guys..

Saturday i'll be dyno'ing my car.. i'll post the numbers. Wish me luck..

 

[turbo buicks]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
Methanol isn't at every gas pump either.

but then again how long does 1 gallon last? a whole track day? i always used to carry a gallon or 2 of denatured in my trunk with my smc kit.

 

[sixgun86gn]

Well My double pumper was homemade with my existing pump and another new one with a t in the gas tank,so it was cheap.But I do get what you mean.My combo may look like it cost alot but don't let that fool you.I have friends in places....know what I mean?

Good luck on those #s.Maybe you can make a beleiver of me yet.But i won't have the motor in it long.It is getting a new home in a friends GN right after Noble.Hope to get some good 10 sec passes on it there.

Next up is a TA aluminum motor that did cost alot and a much bigger 76GTQ on top.We'll see what its capable of after the roll cage,tranny,etc.,etc. are up to snuff.9 second street car here I come!

 

[Razor]

Dyno'd today on 93. Two pulls, 18 degree timing,

512.2 HP 648.3 TQ on a DynoJet ..

Alky makes no power

 

[ledzeppac]

^^^^^^^^^


I want to do that

 

[chris718]

i dont have enough authority or testing in the realm of alcohol injection at this stage to argue its pros and cons.one thing i admire is a daily driven pump gas car that can go 16 plus mph on pump gas,be driven anywhere,idle like a benz (almost ),and run low 11s at the track.one thing is for sure,i see many people doing it in conjunction with alcohol injection so i am sure it does have its place.detonation kills motors and limits power output,water injection was the first antidote and now alcohol injection.i like it ,interesting concept to add to a turbocharged,sequential fuel injected internal combustion engine.im contemplating using it on my brodix headed 8 to 1 surercharged sbc 406/84 hurst olds. shortly.come on don make something for the supercharged crowd.

 

[Razor]

Chris.. talk to Doug and Chris at East Coast SC ..

Dougs Vette just ran 9.8's at 142 at 1/2-3/4 pedal. I believe it has an F3 ATI blower..

 

[tpabayflyer]

I am no expert by any means but if you run fast on race gas would you not run even faster with alcohol as well??? The cooling effects of the alcohol will help your engine make more power and do it in a safer, more reliable way, right?? Back in WW2, The U.S. and the germans used water/alcohol injection to control detonation on turbo/supercharged engines with great success.
As mentioned before, the older JT3-D equipped Boing 707's would use water injection to make at least 10% more power for takeoff.
These aircraft were affectionately known as the "water wagons".
The unlimited racers at RENO (Mustangs,Bearcat's etc.) also use alcohol injection on their engines. They run in excess of 100psi boost
It seems to me that there has been an incredible amount of engineering and testing done on the positive effects of using alcohol in boosted reciprocating engines over the past 50 years.

I have an 87 GN and don't have alcohol but I do plan on getting
it in the future. I live in Tampa and have never met razor. I am a pilot and just wanted to share this bit of info. TBF