E85 No Intercooler

[87chrisss]

Any advice will be appreciated.. Really trying to meet my goal hope it happens I just noticed, my locking of the converter @ 70mph really helps my MPH/RPM

Scared of Boost? GO HOME!

I Turn the knob up

 

[bison]

Id run the car on the current tune and dial in the traction. Then creep the boost up till it runs the number .the butt dyno is deceiving. Try and keep the engine under 4800 rpm

 

[TLI]

Are you running any alky on top of the E-85? I was thinking of eliminating the IC on my car and I also already have alky from when I was running pump gas.

 

[BGNeXtreem]

Hot air guys should be keeping close watch of this thread if I still had a hot air I would be all over E-85 love it

 

[87chrisss]

** IC is on**

PTE fmic on/ I was surprised it only lost about 2-3 #'s. Had to trun it up some to get back up to 29 psi, anyway's i honestly dont run timing this low i like it higher might have made an error when dropping it some previously. Need some seat time at the track to get that launch set right. Feels like a very low 7 sec car maybe lower b/o a veteran who i took for a ride today he's not sure if it has the 6'9 in her just yet i needa feed her as much boost as i can and bump up timing to about 23 degrees im pretty safe with afr.. So really just need to get the seat time to get it launching good And then play some with timing/boost hope she does it.




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See pics, sorru it was on the previous screen and.. i tested no intercooler and intercooler but i just put my intercooler back on. and had a test run last night which i posted the log.. no alky whatsoever.. Im sure the IAT are somewhere near 280 post intercooler..

 

[TT/Ameasap]

I ran no intercooler on a 12 sec car at the time in 2002-2003. I think Julio has the fabbed pipe now. I might need that back.
I cant remember what the temps were logging, but it was hotter. I remember coming to the conclusion that it would have worked well with a 3'' aluminum pipe from the TB down to DS then to the PS and up to the turbo. Like a big triangle. Have the bottom of the triangle low enough to get a little air and weld a dam to direct even more flow to the pipes. Now Ive seen this thread. I am not scared at all to do this with E85 and alky.
Yes I had big nuts at one time.

 

[Hot Air]

To paraphrase a TV commercial, "It's your car, do what you want!"
Conrad

 

[dandaman]

Wow.. I was worried with 24deg@15psi. Keep up the good work. I love seeing people pushing regardless of what others say. Look forward to more updates.

 

[groumoutis]

Ttype6, I believe he is trying to compare the two (hot air vs intercooler). I didnt read that he said hot air was better. I read that he wants to see how much the intercooler changes the power output. I have always been curious myself. I myself like it when people try new things and are not afraid of what others think or say.


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[Ttype6]

Ttype6, I believe he is trying to compare the two (hot air vs intercooler).

It's simple thermal dynamics. Alcohol can work better than gasoline in a hot environment,but I would never go back to no intercooler once I had one. The hotter the air,the less oxygen available,the less fuel can be burned. The fuel is where the potential energy is.

 

[groumoutis]

That is great and all but it seems to me that he wants to see how much difference the intercooler is making. I haven't read anyone say that the intercooler does make the car produce more power. From what I am understanding is that he is trying to find out how much more power he is gaining with the intercooler. It is just an experiment. He isn't trying to make the world end. It is info that I am interested in and I am willing to bet many others are interested in the results as well. We all like to see the numbers from a real test not numbers given by a manufacturer. Something like how much improvement is there from a front vs a slic. He is gathering real life data that is very useful to us all. It would be nice to know if the net gain from his intercooler is worth the money. When I buy parts I like to get recommendations from the people who already have them. Yes we all know intercooler cool the air but is a large front mount needed or can a slic work? The E-85 fuel is new in comparison to gasoline. Just let the man do his test and see what he comes up with. No need to try and talk him out of it.


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[Ttype6]

That is great and all but it seems to me that he wants to see how much difference the intercooler is making. I haven't read anyone say that the intercooler does make the car produce more power. From what I am understanding is that he is trying to find out how much more power he is gaining with the intercooler.

He's asking if there is something about E85 that would eliminate the need for an intercooler. The answer is no because it does nothing to stop the air from being heated by the turbo. The hotter the air,the less oxygen enters the motor. We need a lot of oxygen to extract the potential energy in the fuel. We can cool the air by injecting water into the compressor,by injecting N2O into the air stream,by injecting Methanol into the air stream,or by moving the air through a heat exchanger. Anything we do to cool the air will enable any motor to make more power and generally speaking,the bigger the intercooler the cooler the air. The cooler the air the greater the potential for more power.

 

[87chrisss]

What most people dont take into consideration is pressure drop, i noticed a fairly big difference in pressure readings. Thus using the intercooler the turbo is working harder (more heat) to produce the same amount of pressure as no I/C and NO restriction from the intercooler. Ofcourse you will see a difference in temp rdgs with I/C and No I/C BUT with the outstanding cooling effect of the alcohol in E85 there is no telling how cool it really is in the combustion chamber? If one could read the temp in air/fuel mixture once in the chamber pre-ignition that would be a more precise analysis of the cooling effect compared to meth injection and pump gas. No knock is a good sign the cooling affect of E85 is fairly well. I have also experimented with adding methanol straight into the tank mixing with E85, got up to around E100 mixture on my Alcohol content analyzer. No knock ever, I wont ever use methanol injection opposed to alcohol based fuel. That's just me. I have also experimented with E85 injection ive done lots of testing for myself most guys would say it would never work or that im going backwards but i love doing my own testing. Bcuz at the end of the day i can honestly say that i know what works. Just like the Spark plug Gap thing guys claim you must run i run way different plug gap on E85 than most.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

Care to share your gap?

 

[87chrisss]

I run AC delco's r43ts gap'd @ 30 but what works for me doesn't mean it will work for you. You have to do your own testing or do your research and what you feel comfortable with use. ​

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[20psiofevil]

Chrisss, have you hit your 6sec goal yet? I have to ask though, do you have a spare motor for back up? I also like the comment on e85 with the squeeze, that would sure lower those intake temps

 

[87chrisss]

Very Very close to my 6 sec run. No engine for backup, don't see a need for a backup, tune is good, no knock, good compression, good oil pressure, correct oil/zinc additive's i don't see a reason why it shouldn't last.

 

[Ttype6]

I run AC delco's r43ts gap'd @ 30 but what works for me doesn't mean it will work for you. You have to do your own testing or do your research and what you feel comfortable with use. ​

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I've always run these useless pieces of crap at .035" gap. I can sometimes feel the fire go out at 28 psi,but not before. Since I've switched to E85 and run 28 lbs of boost,I tightened the gaps to .o32. We'll see if the TR6 will allow me to open the gaps up when I get my stroked production 4.1 together.

 

[Ttype6]

What most people dont take into consideration is pressure drop, i noticed a fairly big difference in pressure readings. Thus using the intercooler the turbo is working harder (more heat) to produce the same amount of pressure as no I/C and NO restriction from the intercooler.

A harder working turbo will also create more pressure in the exhaust which results in hindered evacuation of the spent gasses from the combustion process. This leads to a more contaminated air fuel mixture to be burned in the next combustion cycle. This thread is so old that I forgot if you mentioned water injection as one of the things that you experimented with. Was it?

If one could read the temp in air/fuel mixture once in the chamber that would be a more precise analysis of the cooling affect compared to meth injection and pump gas.

Monitoring exhaust gas temps will tell you what's going on in the combustion chamber.

No knock is a good sign the cooling affect of E85 is fairly well.

Because of E85's higher octane,you would expect to be able to run more boost just as you would with 110 octane gasoline. They both have the ability to handle more heat and pressure. To know if there is also a cooling effect,you would have to monitor EGTs. The one advantage Meth injection has,to cooling intake air, is that it has a longer period of time to do its job.

 

[87chrisss]

Im not an engine guru but EGT will NOT give you the cooling effect of the alcohol when introduced into cylinder. EGT is the temperature of post combustion. Im talking about pre-combustion, when the air and fuel is introduced into the cylinder prior to ignition thats when the alcohol can do its job of removing heat.