Fast XFI or Big Stuff Everyday Driveablilty

[Louie L.]

Im going with the FAST , XFI of course as being better.:biggrin:

I am a great fan of the Translator + tho. Items like the T+, MAF PRO, Extender chips, Turbo Tweak chips are some of the best products out there. The issue is that you are still using a stock ECM and that is the limiting factor. What I do not like about the stock ecm is the mysterious acts that occur here and there. Weird data logs , missing info, You know weve all been at the traffic light car is ideling great and it dies...For no reason what so ever.. That kind of stuff. I could have bought a Classic FAST back in the day just from the dozens of GM- GNX single wire O2s I destroyed with race gas.

What about making that pass on a stock ecm and the fuel pump is starting to go away. With a stock ECM that could mean a set of gaskets. With an XFI w/ wide band it will provide an accurate datalog that will alert the driver to a possible problem.

I remember Gary Harmon with his S2, making a 9.99 Pass at BG on a single 307 when the 2nd pump died. The Classic FAST was able to max out the fuel table and saved that motor. Imagine making that pass on a brand x chip, ecu and MAF.

Now Dont laugh we that that have been in this game a while know that there are some folks who have asked about doing it, some that have tried doing it and or one or two that have amazingly done it with a cigarrete in the mouth while wearing a 1970s polyester shirt.

Yes the FAST is expensive. But i remember after I sold my T+, chip,scanmaster, Direct Scan, WB O2 and MAF i was just over half way $$$ to a FAST unit. With an XFI you are buying the latest in engine management, and most of all insurance.

Just my opinion. :tongue:

 

[JayC]

The MAFPro has wideband correction.. whats the difference? The wideband tracking in the MAFPro is excellent.. works just as good as any aftermarket ECM Ive ever seen.

 

[SloGN]

The issue is that you are still using a stock ECM and that is the limiting factor. What I do not like about the stock ecm is the mysterious acts that occur here and there. Weird data logs , missing info, You know weve all been at the traffic light car is ideling great and it dies...For no reason what so ever.. That kind of stuff.

QUOTE]





I had have those same issues when running the stock ecm with turbolink or direct scan.

I had a issue on time that after i left the starting line the o2's and all sensor data went to 0's. but after i let up it starting showing normal runing values. but the car ran fine. Those random blips in the middle of a run but the data showed nothing.

 

[SGRIM]

how about dinner

I have rode in and drove many buicks... It will take a lot more than this to win that bet:wink:

I just hate to see guys spend 1500+ on a aftermarket ecm for an 11 sec car...

Kinda like the ole Mustang LX V6's with duals:biggrin:

 

[SloGN]

I have rode in and drove many buicks... It will take a lot more than this to win that bet:wink:

I just hate to see guys spend 1500+ on a aftermarket ecm for an 11 sec car...

Kinda like the ole Mustang LX V6's with duals:biggrin:

actually i bought my FAST for grand with a new wideband sensor. The ecm and harness was used. but this was back in 2005 before the maftpro was out in the market.


well i have been around a bunch of buicks myself over the last 10yrs that i have owned mine.

i have also had a bunch of peeps drive/ride in my car and couldn't tell that it had a fast system in it till i told them.


i can't buy all the new stuff for the stock ecm for the amount of money i have in my Bank2Bank box.

honestly if i didn't get a good price on my fast i would prolly have the newer stuff for the stock ecm.

but to each there own it's all good

 

[nastynavy]

I have an Accel setup myself but I think one other thing to think about when purchasing a system like this is who is going to tune the setup for you? If you are going to do all the tuning yourself you have to be comfortable with what you have. If you are going to have someone else tune the car you should really talk with them and see what they are versed in tuning so they can do the best tuning for you. Hopefully this helps.

 

[Grumpy]

I dont' want to make anyone mad here but if you think you can tune a fast to drive as good as the factory computer I bet dinner on that one....

If you want all out performance for sure an aftermarket ecm... If you are drivin daily and enjoy all the features you can not beat the stock ecm. This is of course considering you ain't DD a 10.0 car....
Just my .02's:biggrin:

some of us are computer illiterate's and have to use an old chip and a stock ecm on a 9 sec street driven car
.
I do see a lot of "neat" cool guy stuff in the aftermarket systems It's whatever floats your boat.. interestin thread

 

[quickt]

I stay out of these threads most of the time. I have to say after spending most of the summer of 08 installing after market systems on Kit cars. The gen 7 is the most streetable system IMO. To be fair to the others its the system I know the best. Drive ability and start up is as good as any chip. I also think the TEC-GT does a good Job as does the XFI. I do agree with Jay and Cal's comment's. Its all in the hands of the guy with the laptop. If you are not willing to put your time in to learn your system and work out the bugs stick with a chip.

 

[8AV8]

The MAFPro really is a darkhorse in engine management with the Buicks. It bridges the gap between those people that want ease of tunability without going to a standalone system. Its really a shame this system hasnt gotten more press because it's a pretty amazing device. The wideband tracking is excellent and its not very difficult to tune.

That being said.. Ive been tuning engine management systems as long, if not longer than anyone else on this board. I've worked with TEC, Motech, DFIs, FASTs, Big Stuff 3, AEM and the latest and greatest, the KAM system we have on our race car.

The bottom line is that if you're not running faster than 10.00s, you really dont need an engine management system and even then with the MAFPro, its debatable.

Can you make an aftermarket ECM have good street manners and drive well? Sure.. Can you make it drive as well as a stock ECM.. I dont think so. Ive tuned countless Buicks with engine management systems, supercharged and turbocharged Mustangs, monster trucks with blower motors in them and tons of street rods that people just cruise in. While you can get good quality driveability with an aftermarket ECM, it still isnt as good as the factory stuff. The factory ECMs are purpose built. They do things aftermarket ECMs dont. Thats not a bad thing. You couldn't take a factory Buick computer and drive a Ford with it. If a single ECM would scale to every application, the factory would only make one ECM.

Anyways, back to the question of XFI vs BS3, XFIs are just a lot more prevalent here because more vendors sell them. At our shop, we work more with Big Stuff 3s but we can tune whatever comes through the door. Almost all the fast Mustangs we deal with are Big Stuff 3 powered. We sell way more BS3s than we do XFIs. For the money, the BS3 is a great buy. Still tho, unless you had a really fast car and were more interested in drag strip time than street time, I wouldnt sell you one.

What will a stock ECM do that XFI will not?

 

[Grumpy]

If you are not willing to put your time in to learn your system and work out the bugs stick with a chip.

thats me all the way .. to lazy and old to "retrain" :biggrin:

 

[SGRIM]

I guess I should have grouped myself with Grumpy before I spoke. I don't have the patience or knowledge to tune the aftermarket stuff.

Grumpy your car is a perfect example of what can be done...

Depends on what you want out of the car I guess.

 

[Grumpy]

I guess I should have grouped myself with Grumpy before I spoke. I don't have the patience or knowledge to tune the aftermarket stuff.

Grumpy your car is a perfect example of what can be done...

Depends on what you want out of the car I guess.

well years ago Melissa and I helped Bob Borelli (7 sec car) @ BG, Bristol, Columbus and E Town.. Its was a blast (especially Bristol for his first 7 sec run) .. BUT after you watched all the work goin into the car wellllll.... after a week I had had enuff WAY to much work to race the car for a few times a year to me.. I admire "Cal" and all the other devoted guys doin tuning.. IF I had the car with a "TEC, Motech, DFIs, FASTs, Big Stuff 3, AEM " that sucker wouldn't even start !! I also remember @ BG the # of cars backfiring and poping all the way down the track ... yup.. keep it simple for guys like us :biggrin:

 

[Alky V6]

Which system is best? It's really all in the hands of a capable tuner. You could have a system with all the resolution in the world and it wouldn't compare to a stock ECM if the wrong person was tuning it.

Coming up with a streetable tune is a matter of investing the time to work one out. I don't care which system it is.

Do you really think that the OEM invested little time into coming up with their production tune? Think again. Even after the car has been delivered to the customer, revisions to the programming continue, making occasional reflashing necessary to correct bugs that come to the surface after many miles of accumulated data.

I run a relatively low compression engine on pure alcohol with a very big camshaft and 160 lb/hr injectors, and it is as streetable as any stock GN. Granted, there are many hours invested in the tune and revisions still continue, but the fact is, a capable tuner will be able to get around any obstacles put in front of him by any engine control system.

For me personally, I demand a system that will give me the flexibility to try whatever I want to try, be it wrong or right. I love to tinker too much to have a system limit me.

What's the fuel and timing map resolution with the stock ECM?

 

[gbsean]

something to be said about the MAFT PRO....the ability to use the NB sensor for daily driving and WB for WOT...the tuning is all in the tuner...am sure that XFI..FAST,,BS3 are great tools..but for me it was the MAFT PRO...along with the Tuner Pro sofware...it makes changes easy...even for a dummy like me...plus the fact it works with powerlogger and scanmaster....a complete package....

 

[SloGN]

I went and did some searching and tallied up what it cost to do a piggy back set-up for the stock ecm to have WB control and speed density.

These prices are from mike licht website.


Maf-pro 400.00
Power logger 265.00
Tuner-pro Chip 120.00
Innovate LC-1 230.00
GM 3 bar sensor 55.00 ( GMpartsdirect)

Total 1,070.00


I bought my Classic Fast system 3 yrs ago for 1,000 with a new W/B.

 

[Alky V6]

I went and did some searching and tallied up what it cost to do a piggy back set-up for the stock ecm to have WB control and speed density.

These prices are from mike licht website.


Maf-pro 400.00
Power logger 265.00
Tuner-pro Chip 120.00
Innovate LC-1 230.00
GM 3 bar sensor 55.00 ( GMpartsdirect)

Total 1,070.00


I bought my Classic Fast system 3 yrs ago for 1,000 with a new W/B.

I think some of it is more than the cost of a stand-alone system. There is some intimidation involved. I think some feel they have to cling to their OEM system, much like a safety blanket. I have the same feeling going on in regards to my rear suspension.

 

[quickt]

From Jegs Thruster. This is universal kit will work with 4,6,8 cyl. Its says ford V* but will work with anything.

$1099.99 Brand New with harness
Add Wide band and data logger for another $350

http://www.jegs.com/i/DFI/310/77011/10002/-1

 

[nastynavy]

I went and did some searching and tallied up what it cost to do a piggy back set-up for the stock ecm to have WB control and speed density.

These prices are from mike licht website.


Maf-pro 400.00
Power logger 265.00
Tuner-pro Chip 120.00
Innovate LC-1 230.00
GM 3 bar sensor 55.00 ( GMpartsdirect)

Total 1,070.00


I bought my Classic Fast system 3 yrs ago for 1,000 with a new W/B.

I looked at it the same way. I bought my DFI Gen VII last year with a new O2 for $1000 with the Buick harness. I would have had as much or more for the Maf-pro and there are not many around that can help me tune that when I last checked. Lonnie has my DFI tuning duties if I ever get the "roller" put back together!:biggrin:

 

[SloGN]

From Jegs Thruster. This is universal kit will work with 4,6,8 cyl. Its says ford V* but will work with anything.

$1099.99 Brand New with harness
Add Wide band and data logger for another $350

DFI 77011 - Accel-DFI Thruster EFI Engine Management System - JEGS

thats a pretty nice system from the details they provided on the website. I would really like to take a look at the software myself.

 

[quickt]

http://accel-dfi.com/calmap/calmapdownload.asp

Its a nice system. Just not popular in the Buick world. FAST ties run deep in the Buick community not much help here. All the systems will help you go fast and they all seem to work well. IMO the DFI is unmatched in drive ability. I know the Accel and the Electromotive very well. I can get by with the XFI and cant stand the BS3. The chip stuff I gave up on years ago.