Fastest V6 Buick on pump gas Oct 2010?

[TurboBuRick]

Basic build is:
274" on center
TA heads
236-236 cam
Journal bearing 76GTS turbo
V2 intercooler
Xfi with 95lb injectors
400 trans with Bradco convertor
3.42 gears with 295-55 drag radials
Weighs 3735 with driver

Street car

Forgot the most important thing. What fuel pump? :biggrin:

 

[Razor]

Julio,

Great 411. What was the ambient temperature?

Walter

It was at BG last weekend. 50 in the morning and 70's in the day? probably 60-65 degree's out?

 

[Robert Wilson]

Forgot the most important thing. What fuel pump? :biggrin:

XP plus double pumper through a -8 line. Both pumps on all the time with the stock feed line as a return.

 

[bison]

Whats unique about this log is that look at pump psi drop off mid track. This only happens when the alky tank is half full. When the tank is full it doesnt drop in pressure.

This pressure drop as you said doesnt show up as leaner in the homogenous mixture based on the sensor reading but none the less is a little less fuel being delivered. I wouldnt be concerned with a low target a/f on a conservative tune like that one. That car has a lot more left in it. Way more than most would think looking at that log. At this power level its definitely a good idea to use a 1 gallon fuel cell mounted forward to eliminate that drop in pressure. Theres a certain point where the alky drops in the tank and that drop will be much more severe and potentially dangerous. Very good info showing how vulnerable a lot of 93/alky guys are when looking to go really fast. This car is on such a conservative tune it might not have been taken seriously without the log posted. I would be running inconel ex valves for sure with the timing that low and be paying a lot of attention to the ex valve to guide clearance.

 

[Boost231]

razor, so this is a dual nozzle right? m10/m15? im suprised to see such a high pump pressure.

 

[Razor]

This pressure drop as you said doesnt show up as leaner in the homogenous mixture based on the sensor reading but none the less is a little less fuel being delivered. I wouldnt be concerned with a low target a/f on a conservative tune like that one. That car has a lot more left in it. Way more than most would think looking at that log. At this power level its definitely a good idea to use a 1 gallon fuel cell mounted forward to eliminate that drop in pressure. Theres a certain point where the alky drops in the tank and that drop will be much more severe and potentially dangerous. Very good info showing how vulnerable a lot of 93/alky guys are when looking to go really fast. This car is on such a conservative tune it might not have been taken seriously without the log posted. I would be running inconel ex valves for sure with the timing that low and be paying a lot of attention to the ex valve to guide clearance.

One of my thoughts was to make a Buick tank with foam to keep the sloshing down. Change the style of cap on it. My first choice was as you said.. 1 gallon fuel cell. its just neat to see things like this and goes to shows that there is no substitute for data.

Yes.. as timing goes down.. EGT goes up. Even tho I wouldnt think 19 is that low.. guess an EGT would answer some of that issue.

Great points

 

[Razor]

razor, so this is a dual nozzle right? m10/m15? im suprised to see such a high pump pressure.

The scaling is a little off on the sensor. Remember you need to input the numbers on the FAST to scale it. Not a biggie.. but non the less you can see the pressure drop.

Its like the fuel pressure.. as long as it reads X and holds steady with boost.. it is fine. So if his FP read 75 or 55.. as long as it tracked boost.. its fine. Its just a scaling issue.

The XFI is a little tricker dialing in the sensors.

 

[Red C5]

Weighs what it does because its not stripped down.

This is on pump gas... and the alcohol sprayed on top.

Agree on a sleeper..

But what's the fastest it's been on JUST pump gas?

 

[Robert Wilson]

One of my thoughts was to make a Buick tank with foam to keep the sloshing down. Change the style of cap on it. My first choice was as you said.. 1 gallon fuel cell. its just neat to see things like this and goes to shows that there is no substitute for data.

Yes.. as timing goes down.. EGT goes up. Even tho I wouldnt think 19 is that low.. guess an EGT would answer some of that issue.

Great points

I am recording EGT only off number 2 cylinder at this time. I have the probe 1" away from the head and it is measuring 840*C (1544*F) on my gauge. I currently have one of the Apexi EGT gauges that has the recall feature. When I built the motor, I put EGT bungs at every port so I hope to invest in the FAST individual EGT system soon.

 

[Razor]

But what's the fastest it's been on JUST pump gas?

Maybe Robert can answer this.

Example.. on my car i'll never know.. and dont care as i'm trying to always go faster not slow the car down. Point is why run my 9 second car in the high 10's? Possibly subjecting it to damaging knock while trying to see how fast it can go on bad gasoline.

 

[Robert Wilson]

But what's the fastest it's been on JUST pump gas?

Never ran it on just pump gas and I don't really see any reason to. Alcohol is cheap and it consumes very little.

 

[Red C5]

I was curious as to how much more boost/power it makes with it to get a comparison. On my car I wouldn't run more than 14psi on pump gas, 20 psi on 100, etc. Alky is a lot cheaper than race gas and is a great fuel no doubt about it. Was curious if Robert ever did a comparison and would be able to say what a motor/combo like his was capable of on just pump gas.

Your car is awesome Robert. HUGE props!

 

[bison]

I was curious as to how much more boost/power it makes with it to get a comparison. On my car I wouldn't run more than 14psi on pump gas, 20 psi on 100, etc. Alky is a lot cheaper than race gas and is a great fuel no doubt about it. Was curious if Robert ever did a comparison and would be able to say what a motor/combo like his was capable of on just pump gas.

Your car is awesome Robert. HUGE props!

It is built around running alky injection so its not a good comparison to run it without alky. You would be better off using a high revving setup if you want power on 93 octane gasoline. If he built the engine around 93 octane only id imagine he would have changed a lot.

 

[wbrophy]

Pants caught down on the ground (empty/low alky tank).

Is there anything wrong with finding out how one's car would run on just pump gas?

 

[Slow91z]

Is there anything wrong with finding out how one's car would run on just pump gas?

I would say no there's nothing wrong with it...If it's something you care to know...I can't speak for other people, but I could care less what mine runs on pump gas alone because it's NEVER on pump gas alone...Also never on race gas.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Is there anything wrong with finding out how one's car would run on just pump gas?

Nothing wrong with it, just something I don't care to know personally.

 

[wbrophy]

Gale Banks: Rule of thumb for boost (on TV)

Gale Banks said: all things being equal, 1 psi increase in boost equals a 7% increase in power.

So, 14 psi to 26 psi equals an 84% increase in hp!

I gave his statement some thought!! and using simple math he looks to be close i.e. 7 times 14.7 = 102.9% (or) if you have 14.7 lbs. in weight and than add 14.7 lbs. of weight, you double the weight which is a 100% increase. A 250 cu.in. engine thinks it's a 500 cu.in. engine at 14.7 psi of boost but with less moving parts than a V8.

 

[Blazer406]

Gale Banks said: all things being equal, 1 psi increase in boost equals a 7% increase in power.

So, 14 psi to 26 psi equals an 84% increase in hp!

I gave his statement some thought!! and using simple math he looks to be close i.e. 7 times 14.7 = 102.9% (or) if you have 14.7 lbs. in weight and than add 14.7 lbs. of weight, you double the weight which is a 100% increase. A 250 cu.in. engine thinks it's a 500 cu.in. engine at 14.7 psi of boost but with less moving parts than a V8.

In theory..... that is true.....but don't forget you will not make double the HP for every additional 14.7 lbs of boost because the turbos efficiency is not 100%..... most of the time.... it maxes out in the 75 % range (+/- a few %) on a turbo that was sized appropriately.

 

[Razor]

Is there anything wrong with finding out how one's car would run on just pump gas?

This is just like when you first bought the car and got your scanmaster.

Performance wont be as stellar as when the boost is higher.

Me... My free time to mess with my car is not to make it slower intentionally. Although if a problem arises then we need to take things down to basics to get them sorted.

 

[Grumpy]

Great lookin car !!!