Final THS Rules for 2010

[87LC2]

Bryan,
I am sorry to hear that you won't give it a shot. 11.20n1320 (DDay) lives in your "neighborhood". You should get ahold of him and he can tell you firsthand how much fun he had. Perhaps then you would reconsider.

Unfortunately when a class gets conceived there is no way to guarantee someone won't get "left out" and have to change some things on their car to compete in it. It would be a lucky person who had to change nothing. Another way to look at it is there are only a few basic rules; turbo limit, 200-4r tranny, tire sizes, ac, weight and no nos. That leaves a lot of leeway in other areas for a non-stage Turbo Buick (or TTA)...

 

[Phoneguy]

Bryan,
I am sorry to hear that you won't give it a shot. 11.20n1320 (DDay) lives in your "neighborhood". You should get ahold of him and he can tell you firsthand how much fun he had. Perhaps then you would reconsider.

Unfortunately when a class gets conceived there is no way to guarantee someone won't get "left out" and have to change some things on their car to compete in it. It would be a lucky person who had to change nothing. Another way to look at it is there are only a few basic rules; turbo limit, 200-4r tranny, tire sizes, ac, weight and no nos. That leaves a lot of leeway in other areas for a non-stage Turbo Buick (or TTA)...

Ed, I met DDay at Gateway at the end of the season. He is a nice guy and has a nice car that is very consistent. I think he ran a ten-teen for his last run. I am not complaining, like i said just disappointed.

 

[Sydwyndr]

Ed,

You guys should let up on the rules a bit man. WHy dont you try this:
The race at Piedmont is the first and ONLY 1/8th mile race. Why don't you simply change the turbo rule to see if that would increase car count and on the bottom of your 2k10 rules just add:
"Rules can be changed at any time due to fairness"

I know what it is you are looking for. You don't want some lone gun coming out and just murdering the field by being maybe a half or full second faster than anyone else. Look a few yrs ago when Dick Kereny were running close to 9 flat and everyone else was mid to high 9's. Everyone else just stepped up their game to catch him. I know you can't please everyone but make a few consessions none the less. Try it and see, you never know...

 

[11.20n1320]

cal

Cal, If you would like to know how much the payouts were I will look to night and let you know. As for sponsors, the prizes I got donated, which I didnt get any of as I wanted it to go back to the people running the class as a incintive just to come and race. For me it was just to have a good time with side by side heads up racing!!! I dont think Kip or Ed have recieved enough positive credit for their efforts!! Lets face it they are gaining nothing out of making a place for us to race. I just wish everyone was as good of a class act as Wil Willkerson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a good Day
DDAY

 

[HighPSI]

For Cal,
Thank you for supporting THS. Cash payouts were provided by the organizations that hosted the race (the BPG and the Chicagoland GSCA chapter, for example) last year. And that is how they will be handled this year. So you are not the only "sponsor". Everything else we give away comes from donations. As for last year's payouts, off the top of my head I do not remember what they were. I will look that up (or maybe some of the participants who won something can chime in).

Thanks for the info. Like I originally posted, I haven't seen any posts about other sponsors. If they are sponsoring, they really should get some return on their investment. Sydwynder is the best at this :biggrin:

 

[scot w.]

For one IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE "EVERYONE"!!

To the racers that don't like the "Turbo Limit" rule, You are always welcome to run TSR!! NO turbo limit, Same payout!!

SW.

 

[Slow91z]

The turbo decision has got to be the biggest issue at hand here.
Look at the things that ARE allowed: Trans brakes, fiberglass, frame notch, any size downpipe(kinda funny given the turbo restriction), aftermarket engine management, aftermarket fuel rails, ALKY, 28x10.5 drag slicks, 28x12.5 DOT radials, 295/55 DR's
Just seems like a 3" inlet restriction is going to limit the car count (already obvious by the replies here) and keep people from running multiple classes. TAI seems like the only class I would be able to race without redoing something on my car. I was awaiting the final decision on the billet wheels as I was considering changing the turbo but not to a 3" inlet.
Not whining...disappointed
Bryan

You just explained the point right there...The turbo size and cover is the restriction, a humongous DP probably won't gain you power, but if by chance you already have one you can run it without having to go buy a whole new DP. (Just an example)

Just out of curiosity if you were thinking of buying a whole new turbo to run the class what does it matter if it's 3" or 4"?? All you should need that I can think of is reducer hoses and clamps for your new turbo and keep your 4" hoses and clamps on your "big" turbo for when you want to go number hunting. I can "kinda" understand someone not wanting to pull off their turbo to change covers, but if you are buying a complete turbo then I don't see the issue.

Just curious.

 

[HighPSI]

Cal, If you would like to know how much the payouts were I will look to night and let you know. As for sponsors, the prizes I got donated, which I didnt get any of as I wanted it to go back to the people running the class as a incintive just to come and race. For me it was just to have a good time with side by side heads up racing!!! I dont think Kip or Ed have recieved enough positive credit for their efforts!! Lets face it they are gaining nothing out of making a place for us to race. I just wish everyone was as good of a class act as Wil Willkerson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a good Day
DDAY

I wasn't really concerned about last year as much as this year since myself and others are putting some money into the class. Normally this would improve the class by improving car count. If you want to get more sponsorship (maybe you don't), a future sponsor needs to see what he is getting for his investment. Clint is the best at this. Chris does a great job with this in TSO and Scott used to do it in TSM.
This class has potential and I had hoped to have a few customers in it. Unfortunatly, the rules didn't work out for some of them. Oh well. Big thanks to Scott W for giving them another place to race.
I would normally discuss this offline, but have never received a single PM, email, phone call etc... from whomever is in charge. Is it Kip, 87LCR, or Slow91z? Whoever it is, feel free to call me at 321-863-2303.

 

[Kip]

Ed,

You guys should let up on the rules a bit man. WHy dont you try this:
The race at Piedmont is the first and ONLY 1/8th mile race. Why don't you simply change the turbo rule to see if that would increase car count and on the bottom of your 2k10 rules just add:
"Rules can be changed at any time due to fairness"

I know what it is you are looking for. You don't want some lone gun coming out and just murdering the field by being maybe a half or full second faster than anyone else. Look a few yrs ago when Dick Kereny were running close to 9 flat and everyone else was mid to high 9's. Everyone else just stepped up their game to catch him. I know you can't please everyone but make a few consessions none the less. Try it and see, you never know...

Hi Clint, thanks for the idea. Just some information for you:
Piedmont is not the only 1/8 mile race we are running THS at, Bunker Hill is also 1/8.

Remember the 4 inch 67 guys have a classes they can run such as Alchy, TSM and TSR. So I do not see where anybody is being left out.

On the Dick Kereney subject not everyone stepped up. If memory serves me right they (the racers) even voted to make some of the items he was using illegal. One example would be the automated shifer.

Take care, Kip

 

[Kip]

For one IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE "EVERYONE"!!

To the racers that don't like the "Turbo Limit" rule, You are always welcome to run TSR!! NO turbo limit, Same payout!!

SW.

Great post Scott. Racers who really want to race will adapt or find another class that they fit in.


See ya, Kip

 

[Kip]

Thanks for the info. Like I originally posted, I haven't seen any posts about other sponsors. If they are sponsoring, they really should get some return on their investment. Sydwynder is the best at this :biggrin:

I do not understand this post, as you asked above and Collin (slow91z) provided a link to one place they were mentioned at the end of the year.
If you take the time and search out EDs (LC2) write ups after each race last year you can find more. I know you were not at the two races we ran THS at last year so I understand that you missed what the announcers did for us covering the sponsors but you could ask Sam about the MWBC race as the announcer did an over the top job for THS.


Cheers, Kip

 

[HighPSI]

I can see where you might not understand if you missed my second post.

In a nutshell, I was just asking who the other SPONSORS were THIS YEAR and thought they should be recognized. Not worried about Hartline Performance since Clint is taking care of that. Right now, it "appears" as if we were the only vendor sponsoring the class. I'm sure that isn't the case.
I really can't count the Reynolds payout since that is coming out of the gate money much like the other event money the BPG and the Chicagoland GSCA chapter are doing.

I have several other questions that could also easily be cleared up with a phone call from whomever is in charge. Is it Kip, 87LCR, or Slow91z? If it's the money, call me collect

 

[Sam Colalillo]

Another perspective from someone else who doesn’t race this class:

I give Kip and those involved in creating this class allot of credit. It closes the gap for the guy who wants to run heads up, but doesn’t want to go as fast as the TSM cars are going. I saw some really nice Turbo Hot Street cars competing at Columbus and Osceola last year.

I am completely onboard with racing heads up on a pro tree under a specific set of rules. This is why I built a TSM car. Bracket racing is as boring as playing checkers in my opinion.

I’ll be the first to admit, I thought the turbo rule which this class allows is too large. I thought it should be limited to a 62mm turbo. I will say overall those involved did a pretty good job with the rules. (I still disagree with the turbo rule). The way things are set it keeps this class separated from TSM by not allowing the turbo 400 transmission, in-forcing the factory 10 bolt rear end and retaining the factory air conditioning. These are all things which identify most of the TSM cars.

My recommendations to those who have never raced heads up on a pro tree, and only need to change one thing on your car to run this class. DO IT! Racing heads up is allot more fun than bracket racing.

One thing I have learned about the bickering that goes on in this forum is I never see it at the track. I have watched guys get help from people that they throw under the bus on this forum. Witnessed people that I thought were enemies drink beer together. I have made allot of friends by attending the Buick races. My wife and I enjoy competing at the Buick races, and spending time with those that have the same interests as we do. This is why we come.

Kevin I agree with you it is not because of the payouts. I do this because it is my hobby and I thoroughly enjoy it. We are both very fortunate to have several of the races close to our homes. How ever I would really like to see the payouts in every class increased. It is great to see Hartline Performance sponsor this class. Raising sponsorship money will help raise awareness of this class and make it grow. I can tell the guys who are running well in this class want more people to come join in their fun.

I would like to see the payouts much higher if I were racing THS, and if I were a sponsoring vendor I would want to get the most bang for my buck that is possible. As a racer I can understand why a vendor would want me to put their decal on my car in order to get their money. Getting the payouts higher will take more sponsors. In my opinion all of the sponsors that support a class or an event should be stated in as many places as possible. Kip you are correct both the announcers at the Mid West Buick Challenge did a terrific job of stating all the sponsors several times at the event.

In summary: good luck to all those racing THS this year. I look forward to seeing THS join in on the fun in Reynolds this year!

 

[87lightweight]

my comment from earlier just meant it will be hard to get a good car count when you have cars running anywhere from high 9's to high 12's running in a heads up class, like always it going to come down to who has the most money,
i would like to see some rules that would make it more affordable and tighten the times up,
sorry if it sounds like i am whining but like i said i would love to run this class but just cant afford it.

 

[Kip]

my comment from earlier just meant it will be hard to get a good car count when you have cars running anywhere from high 9's to high 12's running in a heads up class, like always it going to come down to who has the most money,
i would like to see some rules that would make it more affordable and tighten the times up,
sorry if it sounds like i am whining but like i said i would love to run this class but just cant afford it.

If it came down to who has the most money we could skip the track and just all meet at a bank and decide the outcome there. I have seen alot of low buck well thought out combos beat higher dollar efforts over the years.

What would be the more affordable rules you would have liked to see?

Thanks, Kip

 

[87lightweight]

maybe more rules on the motor like stock crank, rods, heads, no aftermarket engine management,
maybe even limit it to one certain turbo.
i dont want to come across as a whiner or crybaby, i would just like for the times to be tightened up if were running a heads up race so everyone has a chance.
thanks Steve

 

[tom robison]

maybe more rules on the motor like stock crank, rods, heads, no aftermarket engine management,
maybe even limit it to one certain turbo.
i dont want to come across as a whiner or crybaby, i would just like for the times to be tightened up if were running a heads up race so everyone has a chance.
thanks Steve

The times that THS has been running is vey capable with stock crank, rods, heads and stock computer. Also from what I can tell from following the other classes the max size turbo is usually the one certain turbo.

 

[Kip]

maybe more rules on the motor like stock crank, rods, heads, no aftermarket engine management,
maybe even limit it to one certain turbo.
i dont want to come across as a whiner or crybaby, i would just like for the times to be tightened up if were running a heads up race so everyone has a chance.
thanks Steve

Steve, I understand your idea about one certain turbo and this has already been discussed. As for a rule on stock rods etc. you have to understand that if we have a rule there needs to be an easy way to police it. Thanks for the interestin the class and I hope to see you at some of the races next year.

Take care, Kip

 

[HighPSI]

The only way you're going to keep it low budget is to do like the roundy-round guys do with their "claimer" motors. If you win a race, somebody can buy your engine for "X" dollars. I don't see that being very feasible in the Buick world.
TSL went the route of having a spec turbo for the class (42-76) and it seems to have kept the cars relatively close. The diference with that class is they started out with the most popular variation of the 76 turbo that everyone was buying anyways.
Another way to stop someone from running away with the class would be to add 50 pounds to the winner of a race. The downside is you can't really award points for low ET and high MPH. Speaking of this, Is TSH a points series or just a bunch of individual races? It's hard for me to encourage my customers to race this class when we don't know the basics.

 

[87lightweight]

i know its too late to change the rules but yeah a spec turbo i think would have leveled the playing field,
i think as this class grows everyone will be suprised at the et's, it was small class last year and we have guys building cars now for this class,
like highpsi mentioned maybe add extra weight to the lower et guys.
and run this on a points series because we always have red lights, bad runs, failures, that might help tighten things up also.
See ya Steve