I just dropped my block and rotating assembly off at the machine shop this afternoon. I am having the block line-bored for the 2 center caps i got from weber racing,rods re-sized and shot peened. The big question is where can I get a torque plate since he is probably going to have to bore it .020 over? Also I will be buying weisco pistons and every ARP fastener offered for these engines. Any suggestions?
First time rebuild-torque plate ??
- Thread starter johnski
- Start date
Squid4life
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2004
If he doesn't already have a torque plate for this motor, see if he can borrow it from another shop, or take it elsewhere. Any time you line bore/hone you should have a torque plate on it since bolting the heads is supposed to "tweak" the center two mains. I would prefer using one for boring/ honing of cylinders as well as the mains. As for finding one, not sure. Not sure I could afford one either. I remember using one at a machine shop I worked at. They were a little expensive so one shop had one for "X" motors, and another shop had one for "Y" motors, and loaned each out. Not much help, sorry. See if someone else in the area has a plate.
Squid
Squid
The machine shop should be the one looking for a torque plate if thats what you asked for. They are spendy to buy so the shops will have plates for what they do most of.( 250 to as high as 500)Look for a shop that does performance work they are more likely to have one.
Jeff
Jeff
The shop that I wanted to do my machine work specialized in boosted BB engines, however had only did a few v6 Buicks. Was I going to convince him to buy plate hones, nope. I bought my own from BHJ. If you consider doing the same, plan for a wait from BHJ as they make the plates as ordered. It took me over 2 months to receive them, but I had planned my build in a sequence that it didn’t effect or over delay me.
RE: Torque Plate?
Torque plates are needed more for racing applications where there is no break in period and alot of block distortion when the heads are bolted on. The buick V6 has very little distortion. Many people do'nt understand how torque plates are used. They're not simply bolted on before the boring and honing procedure. The heads are bolted onto the bare block and the bores are measured in several spots.Then the heads are removed and the plates installed and torqued down until those same measurements can be duplicated. Then the block is honed. Again,these blocks distort very little and you will have a break in period for the rings to match the slightly distorted cylider. Torque plates are a waste of money on these motors for the vast majority of applications. I would also urge you to use a girdle.
Torque plates are needed more for racing applications where there is no break in period and alot of block distortion when the heads are bolted on. The buick V6 has very little distortion. Many people do'nt understand how torque plates are used. They're not simply bolted on before the boring and honing procedure. The heads are bolted onto the bare block and the bores are measured in several spots.Then the heads are removed and the plates installed and torqued down until those same measurements can be duplicated. Then the block is honed. Again,these blocks distort very little and you will have a break in period for the rings to match the slightly distorted cylider. Torque plates are a waste of money on these motors for the vast majority of applications. I would also urge you to use a girdle.
When I mapped my cyliders,with the heads torqued down,I was only able to find a distortion of .0001". This is not what I think,feel,or believe. It is what I found out for myself. Thinking,feeling,or believing something is true is what we do in religion. In real life we can find the truth out for ourselves. If everyone thinks the same thing,no one is thinking. It's not the things in life we do'nt know that hurt us, It's the things we know that ar'nt so. A good example of this is the common wisdom that getting too much saturated fat and cholesterol,in our diets,is the cause of heart attacks. If you blindly follow this advise,and take steps to reduce your intake of saturated fat and take drugs to lower your cholesterol level, you'll suffer the consiquences of knowing something that is'nt so. In the case of torque plates on a Buick V6,it's a waste of time. The good news is that if you choose to ignore this fact,and use torque plates anyway,your motor will come to no harm.
To test a theory we need to put it into practice in a real life situation. In the case of saturated fat and cholesterol in our diets being blamed for the diseases,that were almost non existant 100 years ago,we need only look at large groops of people who eat the same diets. Make a list of foods we had available to eat 100 years ago. Next make a list of foods we now eat,that did'nt exist back then. You'll find.back then, that we ate alot of animal products,which are the only source of dietary cholesterol. More than half of us were farmers who had eggs to eat every day. The only thing we had to cook the eggs in was butter and lard. We drank whole fat,unpasturised,unhomoginised milk,also filled with saturated fat and cholesterol. Now we cook with vegetable oil,shortening,and margarine. These fats did'nt exist before 1911. In your list of foods ,that we now eat,that did'nt exist 100 years ago you will find alot of these fats. You will also find alot of sugar and flower. In 1900 the average American consumed 20 pounds of sugar per year. Today the average American consumes 150 pounds per year. These new fats we consume have no saturated fat or cholesterol. Acording to the world health orginization 3 % of America deaths,in 1900 were caused by cardiovascular disease. 3 % of deaths were caused by cancer. 5% of Americans were obiece. In the year 2000 the world health organization claimed that 46 % of American deaths were caused by cardiovascular disease. 20% of the deaths were caused by cancer. 55% of Americans were obiece. I you were going to blame our health problems on the food we eat,which list of foods would you suspect. Would it be the foods we used to eat and now minnimize at all cost,or do'nt eat at all,or would you suspect the foods we now eat that did'nt exist back then. The longest living population,with the least incidence of heart disease and cancer, on the planet today are the people of Okinowa.They eat alot of pork and fry alot of ther foods in lard. The secound healthiest populution lives in France. The eat alot of Greasy duck and use alot of cream and butter sauces. These people ar'nt just doing OK,they're the healthiest people on the planet. Okinowens eat three times the meat of their Japanise nieghbors and have one third the incidence of heart disease. 60% of heart attack patients have low cholesterol and do'nt smoke cigaretts. Again,it's not the things we do'nt know that hurt us,its the things we know that are'nt so.
life expectancy has increased.
diagnosis is more accurate...in the 1900's we had no no documented cause of death for most people. we also had no way of measuring cholesterol
still to this day, the most common cause of death, is trauma/accidental
cholesterol is a causative agent that can be modified.
to make things simple.
from near infancy, we develop what is known as a fatty streak in our large arteries. lipids aggregate onto the fatty streak. these are what is known as plaques. plaques get larger and block the lumen of blood vessels. if the plaques form fissures or fragment, blood clots form on top of the plaques and cause complete blockage....a heart attack or stroke results.
i can go on for pages, but in essence, cholesterol is one of the causes of heart attacks...
diagnosis is more accurate...in the 1900's we had no no documented cause of death for most people. we also had no way of measuring cholesterol
still to this day, the most common cause of death, is trauma/accidental
cholesterol is a causative agent that can be modified.
to make things simple.
from near infancy, we develop what is known as a fatty streak in our large arteries. lipids aggregate onto the fatty streak. these are what is known as plaques. plaques get larger and block the lumen of blood vessels. if the plaques form fissures or fragment, blood clots form on top of the plaques and cause complete blockage....a heart attack or stroke results.
i can go on for pages, but in essence, cholesterol is one of the causes of heart attacks...
If they were so ignorant about the causes of death in 1900,why did the Wold Health Organisation have a catagory for deaths from cardiovascular disease? With all the animal fat we cosumed back then,everyone must have had high cholesterol levels,if you blindly believe the popular wisdom that a diet high in cholesterol leads to high levels of blood serum cholesterol. This popular wisdom is simply untrue and has been proven so many times. If you choose to believe this inspite of the facts,then they all must have had high cholesterol. Why was the insidents of heart disease so rare. The number one killer of people today is heart attacks and strokes. While cholesterol plays a part in heart disease,it is'nt the cause. Blaming cholesterol is the same as blaming fire fighters for causing the fires the try to put out. Something has to damage the artery first. Then the cholesterol comes along and tries to patch the damage.The thing to ask is what caused the damage? There is no system in the human body that monitors cholesterol and trys to keep it at a specific amount. The body does'nt care what its cholesterol level is. Why should you? Cholesterol lowering drugs do'nt and have'nt reduced the heart disease rate. As a population,the U.S. consumes less saturated fat and cholesterol than ever and has more heart attack than ever. 100 years ago we lived on animal fat and had very little heart disease. Today the top two healthiest countries do the same. These are the facts. There is nothing you can say or do to change them. They ca'nt be bought. Thay ca'nt be bribed. The last thing an intelligent,sientific mind would guess the cause of C.D. to be,after knowing these facts, Is saturated fat and cholesterol. Again,if you were going to look for the cause of C.D. in the food we eat,you would look at the foods we now eat that did'nt exist 100 years ago. The last thing you would blame is the foods we used to eat when we did'nt have C.D. The last thing you would blame is the pork,lard,greasy duck,butter,and cream That the two healthiest countries on the planet eat.
there are modifiable and unmodifiable risk factors to heart disease.
genetics and family history can not be changed.
excercise, cigarette smoking, alcoholism ,blood pressure, diabetes and diet can be controlled. out of these 6 factors, management of diet will affect the largest group of people.
cholesterol attaches to the fatty streak in the vessels. it does not try to patch damage to blood vessels
the WHO can only speculate causes of death in the 1900's.
in a country like america that has a large population that is obese, sedentary and genetically predisposed to CAD, diet control is a must.
i dont know where you get your information from, but please dont encourage people to dispute common medical knowlege.
by the way...where did u learn this stuff from?
genetics and family history can not be changed.
excercise, cigarette smoking, alcoholism ,blood pressure, diabetes and diet can be controlled. out of these 6 factors, management of diet will affect the largest group of people.
cholesterol attaches to the fatty streak in the vessels. it does not try to patch damage to blood vessels
the WHO can only speculate causes of death in the 1900's.
in a country like america that has a large population that is obese, sedentary and genetically predisposed to CAD, diet control is a must.
i dont know where you get your information from, but please dont encourage people to dispute common medical knowlege.
by the way...where did u learn this stuff from?
Almost nobodys family had C.D. 100 years ago. So genetics and family history ca'nt possibly be the cause. Yes, diet is the problem. Why ask people to limit ther intake of foods we used to eat when we were healthier? Why ask people to limit ther intake of foods that the longest living,healthiest people on the planet today eat? Just because something is common knowlege,does'nt make it true. Why do you blindly follow these common theories in the face of these facts?
Why are'nt you suspicious of the eight times higher consumtion of sugar we're eating? Why are'nt you suspitious of all the unatural fats we consume today,that did'nt exist 100 years ago? Why do'nt you answer any of these questions?
this is starting to give me a headache.....
ill answer your questions to the best of my knowlege.
1." Almost nobodys family had C.D. 100 years ago. So genetics and family history ca'nt possibly be the cause."
-false. 100 years ago life expectancy was shorter, disease was higher...meaning most people died before heart disease could kill them. plus, like i said before, cause of death can only be speculated since it was not documented.
2. "Yes, diet is the problem. Why ask people to limit ther intake of foods we used to eat when we were healthier?"
we were healthier due to a variety of reasons, clean air, less pollution, less chemical exposure, no hormones in food, and most of all...we didnt sit on our butts staring at the tv all day.
3. "Why do you blindly follow these common theories in the face of these facts?"
8 years of college prevents me from blindly following anything in the medical field...im a firm believer in what i speak.
4."Why are'nt you suspicious of the eight times higher consumtion of sugar we're eating? Why are'nt you suspitious of all the unatural fats we consume today,that did'nt exist 100 years ago?"
_ suger intake is irelevant when we are discussing cholesterol. unatural fats should also be minimized.
5. " Why do'nt you answer any of these questions?"
ill answer your questions to the best of my knowlege.
1." Almost nobodys family had C.D. 100 years ago. So genetics and family history ca'nt possibly be the cause."
-false. 100 years ago life expectancy was shorter, disease was higher...meaning most people died before heart disease could kill them. plus, like i said before, cause of death can only be speculated since it was not documented.
2. "Yes, diet is the problem. Why ask people to limit ther intake of foods we used to eat when we were healthier?"
we were healthier due to a variety of reasons, clean air, less pollution, less chemical exposure, no hormones in food, and most of all...we didnt sit on our butts staring at the tv all day.
3. "Why do you blindly follow these common theories in the face of these facts?"
8 years of college prevents me from blindly following anything in the medical field...im a firm believer in what i speak.
4."Why are'nt you suspicious of the eight times higher consumtion of sugar we're eating? Why are'nt you suspitious of all the unatural fats we consume today,that did'nt exist 100 years ago?"
_ suger intake is irelevant when we are discussing cholesterol. unatural fats should also be minimized.
5. " Why do'nt you answer any of these questions?"
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