Front brake calipers vs....

[turbocamino1]

VS... doing the 2WD Blazer swap. Currently ; Vacuum system 9" dual diaphragm from 88 Monte. E v e r y component,front and back, is dead new. 2.75" single piston calipers, hawk HPS pads ss lines and the 4 longer rear shoes and s10 w/cyl's ..car stops well enough for "normal" around town driving...pedal feels fine and are well bled. Just not enough clamping force imo. If i spend the money and add the best dual piston calipers i can get (Wilwood?) wil it be equal to the Blazer swap?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

VS... doing the 2WD Blazer swap. Currently ; Vacuum system 9" dual diaphragm from 88 Monte. E v e r y component,front and back, is dead new. 2.75" single piston calipers, hawk HPS pads ss lines and the 4 longer rear shoes and s10 w/cyl's ..car stops well enough for "normal" around town driving...pedal feels fine and are well bled. Just not enough clamping force imo. If i spend the money and add the best dual piston calipers i can get (Wilwood?) wil it be equal to the Blazer swap?

Check the pressure and call Wilwood and ask.

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Two items, have the pads/shoes been bedded? And is the M/C the correct bore?

Having either of those not being correct will cause a marginal braking system.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[turbocamino1]

Check the pressure and call Wilwood and ask.

i don't have that tester .. maybe a my buddy does... what type pressures would be fair to good?

 

[turbocamino1]

Two items, have the pads/shoes been bedded? And is the M/C the correct bore?

Having either of those not being correct will cause a marginal braking system.

RemoveBeforeFligh The OEM m/cyl's are 1" ..brakes have a few hundred mile and bedded for sure. Im pretty sure these brakes work as designed..there pretty good really...just looking to haul this 3400 Lbs. down after a blast a bit better. Clamping force of the dual calipers,and a larger pad , will have to be a good upgrade?

 

[TurboBob]

A couple more thoughts from a non-expert.
The blazer brakes have more piston area, so therefore more volume. Your braking will improve but your pedal will go a little lower. Its not a huge change, I got used to it very quickly, and I don't regret the change, its an improvement.

"race pads" seem like they need to warm up to work, I tried 'racy' pads (might have been hawk) on my Impala SS, and didn't like them. I switched back to stock.

for more braking pressure, switch to the 10" Caprice booster. (I'm planning to do this as my ProblemMaster is getting noisy),

Bob

 

[dynoman]

What size Champion Billet front wheels do you have ? I got the Wilwood Dyna Pro 12.19" 6 piston to fit my 3.5"x15" Champions . It was very tight but in spec for minimum clearance .

 

[Chuck Leeper]

i don't have that tester .. maybe a my buddy does... what type pressures would be fair to good?

I did some tests with the Regal rotors/calipers on another car.
POOR performance w/ 8" dual diaphragm booster and stock mc.
Pressure with MAX pedal pressure was <900 psi.
Switched to hydraboost, & could easily generate 1500-2000psi. Enough to smoke the pads and rotors. Wound up using Vette system with 13" rotors.
A brake pressure ga kit is not very expensive. We use ours anytime there's a brake performance issue.

 

[turbocamino1]

A couple more thoughts from a non-expert.
The blazer brakes have more piston area, so therefore more volume. Your braking will improve but your pedal will go a little lower. Its not a huge change, I got used to it very quickly, and I don't regret the change, its an improvement.

"race pads" seem like they need to warm up to work, I tried 'racy' pads (might have been hawk) on my Impala SS, and didn't like them. I switched back to stock.

for more braking pressure, switch to the 10" Caprice booster. (I'm planning to do this as my ProblemMaster is getting noisy),

Bob

Yes, i;m leaning towards the Caprice booster and the wilwood dual calipers. The heat range for pads is a bit tricky...i imagine they go from cold to hot in under 100ft. hard braking at 120mph. Will probably get wilwoods street pads.

 

[turbocamino1]

What size Champion Billet front wheels do you have ? I got the Wilwood Dyna Pro 12.19" 6 piston to fit my 3.5"x15" Champions . It was very tight but in spec for minimum clearance .

Fronts are Billet Specialties 15" (Champions on rear) The DYna Pro's w/6 piston calipers you mention interest me . I will take a measurement in a few days to see what space i currently have. Stock rotor is 10.5...going to 12.19 plus the big caliper must be very tight ,,as you said.

 

[TType85]

I did some tests with the Regal rotors/calipers on another car.
POOR performance w/ 8" dual diaphragm booster and stock mc.
Pressure with MAX pedal pressure was <900 psi.
Switched to hydraboost, & could easily generate 1500-2000psi. Enough to smoke the pads and rotors. Wound up using Vette system with 13" rotors.
A brake pressure ga kit is not very expensive. We use ours anytime there's a brake performance issue.

Do you know off hand what the fitting size is for the vette calipers? I need to check mine as I am not happy with the pedal.

 

[turbocamino1]

I did some tests with the Regal rotors/calipers on another car.
POOR performance w/ 8" dual diaphragm booster and stock mc.
Pressure with MAX pedal pressure was <900 psi.
Switched to hydraboost, & could easily generate 1500-2000psi. Enough to smoke the pads and rotors. Wound up using Vette system with 13" rotors.
A brake pressure ga kit is not very expensive. We use ours anytime there's a brake performance issue.

My buddy has a Hydraboost system he sourced from anothr GM car..maybe a small van?. His has been trouble free for 10 years and works great. I have seen a smallish Psi. gauge that can screw into a bleeder hole? With a Caprice booster will the 1" m/cyl. i currently have work ok if i go that route?

 

[TurboBob]

I believe the Caprice booster fits the regular G-body MC
the caprice MC has a slightly larger bore, if your pedal winds up too low

Bob

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Do you know off hand what the fitting size is for the vette calipers? I need to check mine as I am not happy with the pedal.

Not sure of the size. My gauge kit has several fittings in it.
Here's one for a reasonable price.

https://www.amazon.com/Brakes-BPG001-Pressure-0-3000-Thread/dp/B088FMFMS5/ref=sr_1_15?adgrpid=1339205727262824&hvadid=83700680661849&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=78373&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83700705129892%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=7498_13249746&keywords=brake+pressure+gauge+kit&qid=1686743129&sr=8-15

 

[ttypewhite]

I won't steer you in either direction, I'll just give you my own personal experience first hand.

In my White T I have done the following;

- Blazer front brakes with off the shelf ceramic pads at a local Auto parts store
- Monte Carlo dual vacuum brake booster Master cylinder
- Summit portioning valve bypassing the factoring one mounted to the frame of the car.
- Willwood rear disc brakes

Thoughts: brakes extremely well, actually really good. The car is 3,580 pounds without me in it and stops the car very well on 160mph pass without a parachute. (KEYNOTES: the vacuum line is the most critical part of this setup. Run it on it's own designated line from the Master to the intake. I used #6 AN fittings and Teflon line with a Summit check valve to replace the regular plastic one that is used with the MC)

On the GN is have:

- Willwood front 6 piston disc brakes
- Monte Carlo dual vacuum brake booster Master cylinder
- factory rear drums

Thoughts: brakes extremely well, not as good as the White T. The car is 3,600 pounds without me in it and stops the car very well on 160mph pass without a parachute. (KEYNOTES: the vacuum line is the most critical part of this setup. Run it on it's own designated line from the Master to the intake. I used #6 AN fittings and Teflon line with a Summit check valve to replace the regular plastic one that is used with the MC). I believe the portioning valve would help a lot but have yet to do it, and I am also going to put the Willwoods on the back of this car as well.

Either one will get the job done. My my cars are heavy and make a good amount of power that I don't have a problem stopping at the end of a pass. I wouldn't consider these 2 cars to be like most on here in terms of weight and speed, and I am more then fine with the stopping power I have in tight situations on the street or track.

 

[TurboBob]

@Turbo6inKY should have some ideas also. He autocrosses his car, so brakes are critical.

his build page is here The Buick Build Sheet! | Things I work on

 

[turbocamino1]

(KEYNOTES: the vacuum line is the most critical part of this setup. Run it on it's own designated line from the Master to the intake. I used #6 AN fittings and Teflon line with a Summit check valve to replace the regular plastic one that is used with the MC)

Some great ideas...would like to see what this setup looks like?

 

[Turbo6inKY]

VS... doing the 2WD Blazer swap. Currently ; Vacuum system 9" dual diaphragm from 88 Monte. E v e r y component,front and back, is dead new. 2.75" single piston calipers, hawk HPS pads ss lines and the 4 longer rear shoes and s10 w/cyl's ..car stops well enough for "normal" around town driving...pedal feels fine and are well bled. Just not enough clamping force imo. If i spend the money and add the best dual piston calipers i can get (Wilwood?) wil it be equal to the Blazer swap?

The blazer swap is NOT substantially better than stock. Period. The math doesn't pan out. It's easier to service, though.

Clamp force is a function of the line pressure and the surface area of the pistons. Line pressure is generated by the pedal and the master cylinder.

Duel piston calipers that fit the stock and blazer setups all have about the same total piston area (~4 square inches) as the stock single piston and even fancy four piston calipers like the Wilwood dynalite. The benefit of more pistons is they apply the force more evenly, leading to longer pad life. It has nothing to do with clamping force. Even the fancy six piston setups on the Wilwood 13" diameter kit I use is about the same. They do that on purpose so we don't have to go to an exotic giant master cylinder.

If you want better stopping, get better pads. That's it. Bigger is for heat management and endurance, it doesn't substantially increase absolute stopping power. That's all in the pads and the tires.

The Hawk HPS pad likes a bit of heat to really start working. You may be happier with an EBC Yellowstuff or even a set of severe duty Wagners from the parts store.

 

[turbocamino1]

The blazer swap is NOT substantially better than stock. Period. The math doesn't pan out. It's easier to service, though.

Clamp force is a function of the line pressure and the surface area of the pistons. Line pressure is generated by the pedal and the master cylinder.

Duel piston calipers that fit the stock and blazer setups all have about the same total piston area (~4 square inches) as the stock single piston and even fancy four piston calipers like the Wilwood dynalite. The benefit of more pistons is they apply the force more evenly, leading to longer pad life. It has nothing to do with clamping force. Even the fancy six piston setups on the Wilwood 13" diameter kit I use is about the same. They do that on purpose so we don't have to go to an exotic giant master cylinder.

If you want better stopping, get better pads. That's it. Bigger is for heat management and endurance, it doesn't substantially increase absolute stopping power. That's all in the pads and the tires.

The Hawk HPS pad likes a bit of heat to really start working. You may be happier with an EBC Yellowstuff or even a set of severe duty Wagners from the parts store.

I must admit..this is getting a bit confusing. I surly appreciate the advise but ..for the last few day i have been reading many,many postings from guys that have done the blazer dual piston swap with a better pad and some also with the 12" caprice dual booster ..many utube vids all claiming its "night and day". The fact that the pad area and piston area is greater it seems logical there would be more contact area so by default better braking...add more vac assist to that to create clamping pressures. This is a very researched upgrade. Can find many utube vids on the swap...i can't believe they are all mistaken. Gbody.com covers this is depth too.

 

[~JM~]

I must admit..this is getting a bit confusing. I surly appreciate the advise but ..for the last few day i have been reading many,many postings from guys that have done the blazer dual piston swap with a better pad and some also with the 12" caprice dual booster ..many utube vids all claiming its "night and day". The fact that the pad area and piston area is greater it seems logical there would be more contact area so by default better braking...add more vac assist to that to create clamping pressures. This is a very researched upgrade. Can find many utube vids on the swap...i can't believe they are all mistaken. Gbody.com covers this is depth too.

I've seen much the same. I suspect it IS a large improvement over the worn out 100+K mile parts that were replaced.

The Blazer components do offer a speed sensor.

I'm interested in learning how to optimize braking within the 15" rim space.