Front tires rubbing need stiffer springs??

[84ttype]

I installed a set of Spohn Front lower control arms, and it lowered the car about 1" causing the front tires to rub when I hit a bump. Is this to be expected with spohn control arms??? I'm running 225/60/15s up front and had no rubbing issues before. Is there a stiffer or longer aftermarket spring out there?? I need to raise the front back up at least a half inch. don't want to run smaller tires the car was raked enough before now I feel like I'm sliding forward when I sit in the seat.

 

[Silver Fox]

I installed a set of Spohn Front lower control arms, and it lowered the car about 1" causing the front tires to rub when I hit a bump. Is this to be expected with spohn control arms??? I'm running 225/60/15s up front and had no rubbing issues before. Is there a stiffer or longer aftermarket spring out there?? I need to raise the front back up at least a half inch. don't want to run smaller tires the car was raked enough before now I feel like I'm sliding forward when I sit in the seat.

I recently had the same issue. I used sme spacers under the spring to solve the issue. This thread contains all the info you need on the spacers. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/br...ls/244936-moog-5658-front-spring-results.html

Let me know if you have any questions.

Rob

 

[84ttype]

Thanks for the info Silver Fox, I might end up trying the spacers. I was curious though if there is a stiffer spring out there, I'm still running the stock springs right now. Beings everything else on the front end is new It might be a good idea to upgrade the springs as well.

 

[Silver Fox]

Thanks for the info Silver Fox, I might end up trying the spacers. I was curious though if there is a stiffer spring out there, I'm still running the stock springs right now. Beings everything else on the front end is new It might be a good idea to upgrade the springs as well.

Stiffness/spring rates/and a ride height you are happy with is really tough to dial in. If you are happy with how your car rides, I'd stick with the springs that are in it and use the spacers.

If you want to put in new springs that are near stock height, the Moog 5660s are supposed to be good. I've read that sometimes they raise the front end too high though. Moog Springs and their competitors don't have a strict quality control as they used to. Kirban sells stock replacement springs that are supposed to be very good. Detroit Eaton also sells factory replacement springs based on factory standards, but they are about $150.00 for the front set. The Moog 5658s from the other thread are stiffer, but shorter (but you can always use the spacers).

This won't be an easy job if you decide to start putting springs in, as you will get the tires to stop rubbing but the front end will be too high, or some other issue will arise, and you will have to work from their (ask me how I know).

I've been working to get the right height, right stance, and no tire rubbing for over a year now. I think I am finally there.

Rob

 

[jdpolzin]

Are you sure your car has stock springs in it right now?? The reason I ask is that your tire size is .25" shorter than a stock tire and only about .4" wider. With only 1" of drop, you shouldnt be experiencing any rubbing. I'm curious if you dont already have drop springs or if the stock springs are just that badly worn. I have ran a 2" drop spindle with 225/60's in the front. The spindles were BellTech with no bump steer corrections and it fit fine with stock springs in there. I think the 5658 may be higher than the springs you have in there. ------Jeremy

 

[Silver Fox]

Are you sure your car has stock springs in it right now?? The reason I ask is that your tire size is .25" shorter than a stock tire and only about .4" wider. With only 1" of drop, you shouldnt be experiencing any rubbing. I'm curious if you dont already have drop springs or if the stock springs are just that badly worn. I have ran a 2" drop spindle with 225/60's in the front. The spindles were BellTech with no bump steer corrections and it fit fine with stock springs in there. I think the 5658 may be higher than the springs you have in there. ------Jeremy

JD - good points. Another factor is the wheel width and backspacing. I wish the moderators would make the 5658 thread a sticky, as it covers most of these issues.

 

[84ttype]

My springs look like the ones on the left in the picture in the link Silver Fox posted. its on the 3rd page, The guy who posted listed it as an "F" body spring??? I'll take some measurements of the current height tommorow. does anyone know what the stock height is? by the way I'm runnig a 15x7 up front with a 3.75 backspacing.

 

[jdpolzin]

Check out the 5658 thread for info on stock measurements. Are you running stock rims?

 

[84ttype]

I checked everything out today and I suppose the cheapest way to fix my rubbing issue would be to put some bolts in the inner fender so it stays where its suppose to!! . I caught it rubbing again when I was parking the car so I left the wheel turned and jumped out to look and the back of the inner fender was resting on the tire, I hope that was the problem. again.

By the way I'm sitting between 24.5" and 25" ( the driveways not exactly level) to the lip of the fender. does that seem right? In the link jdpolzin you had drop spindles and lowering springs(tires are roughly the same diameter) and your car still doesn't sit as low as mine. and the wheels arent stock I listed the measurement in the above post.

 

[jdpolzin]

Im thinking someone may have cut the front springs in your car at one time or another. Have you thought about installing new springs? 24.75" is pretty darn low. I like the low stance and want mine to be as low as possible but performance is a key factor. If I have to deal with rubbing, noises, jarring my head over bumps, I'll pass. My whole idea was a balance between being low, riding comfortably and having a car that will corner better than a Vette. Also, do you know if it has BellTech spindles on the car? Sounds awfully close to the measurements on one of my old cars that had BellTech drop spindles on it. And yes, I dont know why people always forget to put those darn bolts in the holds the fenderwell up! :biggrin:

 

[84ttype]

Just got back from a test run, still rubs and I noticed some dirt on the sidewall on passenger sidewall. The alignments out of wack, on The passenger side tire the corner of the tread pattern overlaps the inside edge of the fenderlip by about a 1/4 inch. On the Drivers side (which doesn't rub) the corner of the tread pattern is tuck in away from the inner fenderlip.

Looks like I'm going to have to replace the springs and get it realigned. From what I can gather even the lowering springs should raise the front end up a bit. The only mods "I've done" on the front end are tubular uppers and Spohn lower control arms.

Are there any visual differences between BellTech and stock spindles?? going by the old dust/dirt meter I'd say they are stock though. Jdpolzin I'm with you on the whole Performance/Ride/Comfort deal. This just happens to be how the car is sitting right now.

 

[jdpolzin]

With just one inch of drop even if the car had stock spindles and stock worn out springs, the car wouldnt rub at all with those tires on stock rims. So before you do anything, you need to figure out where else the car was lowered. Did you replace the control arms or were they replaced previously? Basically the BellTech spindles are the same as stock but with the actually spindle raised up 2" from the stock location. Maybe take one of the wheels off and post a pic of your springs and your spindles.

 

[84ttype]

alright heres a couple bad pics (didn't want to pull the rotors off):

Heres a pic of where its rubbing, do you think an alignment would help this problem?? The drivers side doesn't rub at all even at this height.

 

[jdpolzin]

Yeah I would definately get an alignment and see where that gets you first. THe only problem with this is if you have to change the springs, you'll have to get another alignment. But for the $65 it cost for an alignment, it may be your best bet! If you have time, take a pic of the stance, I'd love to see it! ----Jeremy

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Are the stock rims on the car?

You can probably add a little negative camber to help out for now but I'd suspect either the rims are not stock and backspaced to little or the control arms somehow pushed the wheel out a tad.

I'd get that rub on a 2" drop with 265/50's on an 8" wide rim, had to have someone cut out the fender well to stop it.

 

[84ttype]

by the way I'm runnig a 15x7 up front with a 3.75 backspacing.

Not Stock.

I'm going to get it aligned tommorow and go from there.

 

[84ttype]

Just got an alignment and it didn't help the rubbing. Then my dad reached under the car on either side and after about 15 seconds figured out that the body is sitting crooked on the frame. I guess that's what 30 years in body work gets you HA. So we're going to loosen the body and nudge it over a little. I'll probably still need to raise the front a little bit, I'm stuck between shims or moog 5658's now I'm really liking the way it sits and I'd say about 3/4of an inch would probably get me out of trouble.

Here's some pics, By the way the ones in the grass are before the spohn control arm install(and the problems), thats the only thing I changed between those pics and the ones in the shop.

 

[jdpolzin]

It definately seems like someone may have done a little spring or spindle work on it. I would double check that they only did springs before you by the 5658's though. If they did spindles, the 5658's will get you into more trouble. I like the way it sits the way it is too! Hopefully readjusting the body will help you!

 

[jdpolzin]

Just thought of another thing, did you re-install the rubber insulators on top of the spring when you had them out for the control arm swap?

 

[Silver Fox]

Just thought of another thing, did you re-install the rubber insulators on top of the spring when you had them out for the control arm swap?

Good point JD. The springs are also supposed to be set in there in a certain position.

I think he needs to add some shims. He is in the same exact situation I was in.

JD - I dropped down from 245/45s to 235/45s. Rubbing is totally gone - might be time to pull my spacers out!